Interview with MTCH, Jev | Specialty Matcha Podcast
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Hello and welcome to the Specialty Matcha podcast.
My name is Ryan and my co -host Zongjun wasn't able to join us because he's in the States right now and I'm in Bangkok, Thailand.
And today I'm happy to interview Jev from MTCH.
So welcome to the podcast.
Yeah.
Hi.
Thank you, Ryan.
Thank you for having me.
Again, I'm Jev.
I'm doing the matcha cafe in Bangkok named MTCH and this is our fifth year.
already and we have three branches in Bangkok.
awesome.
Five years, it's a time.
Yeah, five years.
that's awesome.
Yeah, it seems like yesterday all the time.
I'm sure, went by very fast.
Yeah, very fast.
But yeah, lots of memories.
So before you started MTCH, what was your background?
My background, I...
I used to work in a fashion company.
Fashion buying, trade marketing stuff.
I've there for 6 -7 years before I resigned and I had a short break and then I started
MTCH.
But actually the project started like...
we have the idea about making matcha for over 10 years already.
yeah.
cool.
like single origin, single cultivar type matcha cafe or was it the same concept or did
that happen later on?
At the beginning when we started it was just matcha and then when we started to do a lot
of research and discover this and that we come to discover the single origin matcha, we
come to discover the single producer matcha, that kind of thing.
So I think it's add up, add up, add up.
and then we got the MTCH start with the single origin, single cultivar concept matcha at
the beginning.
Wow, this is just like coffee or wine like there's all these cultivars and I just I never
thought about it that way Yeah, the concept is like you mentioned if it's like coffee or
wine when we go to like the specialty coffee shop, right?
they're like a list of the beans that you can explore the description of the varieties
nodes and story of the producers and also the wine is much more bigger choice and then the
When we talk about matcha, like 10 years ago, nothing is like this.
Just blends, Yeah, just...
People don't even know that it is blend or not.
It is just some things.
Just some like green powder stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And...
Yeah, and like I mentioned, when we start to discover...
we come to know like the difference of things and when we taste it and we we get dripped
right into it.
There's lots of things to learn and lots of things to share and we at that time we are
like we have so many ideas and we have some place to present this we have some place to
make the exposure of our idea.
Yeah, so it's kind of like
It's a exciting moment and it's also very challenging at the time.
Because like you mentioned, it was nothing like this.
five years ago.
for sure.
So talking a little bit about this space that you've created, and I guess I'll think about
the Sukhumvit location for now.
It is really cool.
The first time I walked in, one, it's flooded with light.
And for any of the listeners out there who have never seen pictures, you should definitely
go check out their Instagram.
It almost looks like an Apple store.
Even the color tones, it's like some mixture of like percent arabica and brew bottle
aesthetic and some some apple
store and it's so Zen and everything is just set up for matcha and I walked in and like
you just kind of get it it's like wow this feels just like a specialty coffee shop but
it's for matcha yeah so what was your philosophies behind creating space and designing the
cafe and your inspirations there right I can answer in two parts okay the first part is
about the philosophy
I'm not really into the same aesthetic that much.
And most of the time when we think about the matcha house, it's going to look like the tea
school or the Japanese tea house.
I of myself, I imagine myself working in that kind of environment and it does not fit.
Okay.
Yeah.
You know what I mean, right?
totally.
Yeah.
It does not fit me personal.
So I just try to be myself.
I just to try to keep things simple.
And this philosophy also share with the customer as a point of view as well because
Many times when I put myself into like that kind of like super traditional tea house, I
feel not fit into it.
And also I think the customer might think the same when they come to the cafe with their
like just their like casual dress or...
yeah.
Yeah, they go to gym, wear the sportswear or they have a meeting.
formal.
Yeah, it feels too formal or they feel too...
too, I don't know, too special.
I just want to make it simple as I can.
Yeah, so that's the thing.
This is modern philosophy.
We have a slogan at the beginning.
We use the slogan that called...
Contemporary matcha bar.
Okay.
Yeah, so it's mean contemporary is just everything that happened at the moment Yeah, yeah
anything you can be whoever you are You can wear whatever you like and you can come here
with friends.
You can drink your laptop.
You can drink the books Anything just come as you are and get Get a good matcha.
It feels like the third space when you hear like Howard Schultz and Starbucks like decades
ago talking about the third space.
Yeah.
Yeah
community space.
Really, you get that feeling when you walk into a cafe, one of your cafes.
Yeah, totally, And about the design, yeah, when we want to make the thing that like really
like others made like you mentioned.
So I think about like you mentioned the brew bottles, this is my like whole inspiration of
it.
Apple store, right?
And the arabica, that kind of thing.
I just want to make it clean and
modern, yeah, how to say...
easy to approach.
that kind of thing.
really like how clean it is and it feels like everything that you see has some sort of
purpose.
It's not like a million things everywhere and everything for the complex beverages like
the syrups, the magic cans, the blenders, they're all in the back.
So it's very clean.
And like there's one barista station and every single thing that's on the counter, they
use.
It's really cool.
Yeah.
About the working space design, you know,
We have three branches in Bangkok, right?
And we have Sukhumvit, we have Ari, and we also have a little bit outside of Bangkok.
And if you go to these three stores all the workspaces are the same.
The gap between the front counter and the back counter are
exactly the same.
The location of the tool, the rinser, the electric scale, the electric kettle are all the
same.
Because it's designed by me and I'm gonna be the one who...
You know what, if today I'm working in Ari right?
And tomorrow I will be in another branch or the day after tomorrow I will go to Sukhumvit
with, I should get the same feeling, same move.
You know what I mean?
To make it like...
It's a memory, muscle memory.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just a muscle memory.
So I really...
I really into this kind of stuff.
So I decide everything, every centimeter that...
It's very cool.
It's actually in a similar spirit to tea ceremony.
Like when you study Chano -yu, everything has its exact place.
And like your instructor will correct you if it's like one centimeter too far the other
way.
Yeah, yeah, you know it.
You know it.
Yeah.
I'm sure like the advanced practitioners could do everything blinded.
It's like so, you just know the space.
And every movement's rationalized.
There's no wasted movements or crossover.
Yeah, like the process of making one tea.
You start with this and you end with this finished cream.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
It's a very clean setup too.
Yeah.
When I watch them, it's not only is it the same every time, but you don't see matcha
powder or green stuff anywhere.
We try.
We try.
You should come to Ari.
Yeah.
Is this?
I've been there once.
It's last time, right?
It was maybe one year ago or maybe 18 months ago.
Yeah.
You come here.
totally changed.
It's newly renovated.
The design is more updated.
I like the aesthetic continuity between the spaces because the Ari location still feels
like MTCH.
don't have the words to describe that.
But you kind of adapt it to the space of the building.
feels very natural.
Again, it's its own thing but it still feels MTCH.
Yeah I'm so lucky because every time when we scout the location we don't think much we
don't think about the traffic we don't think about we don't think much we just if we saw
the building that we feel it right we ask for the rent and it is okay we rent it yeah yeah
that's how we work with Ari and Sukhumvit.
I discovered the sweet branch by like how to say when you
I drive to the wrong place.
Okay.
Yeah.
And I look for the accident.
Yeah.
And I look for a U -turn.
And then I just found this building with a rental site on it.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
And I call it.
And on the next day I met the owner of the place.
We do some negotiate about the price and then we put that we put down the deposit.
Okay.
Very spontaneous.
Yeah.
Very spontaneous.
But we just like it.
At that time we are looking for the space that's
to be like our like headquarter okay yeah there should be like we'll separate between the
cafe part and also the office part and we also have the central kitchen at the Sukhumvit.
for like the desserts and the wagashi kind of things.
Yeah yeah yeah so this building this building is what's so right okay yeah nice that's
cool yeah
So when you were opening up your first location, what were some of the hardest parts that
you weren't expecting?
you know, it was very challenging at the time.
like five years ago when we do the thing when we do the thing that is quite like very new
in the market the matcha cafe is very very new i mean i'm not the first one who do the
matcha cafe in bangkok or in thailand there are like many great cafes already at that time
but what we do is we try to we try to describe more about what matcha
is different.
And in that time, the people come to the cafe, some are already expect that they expect to
learn, they expect to discover the variety of the matcha, right?
But some are not.
Some they just come and they just want a good cup of matcha.
And when they come...
When they came, they found that it is too complicated, too hard to select because they
have no idea about the taste difference, about the character of the umami -ness or the
body of the matcha.
They thought like matcha is matcha.
Yeah, they just wanted to drink.
Yeah, they just wanted to grab a drink.
And we have to learn a lot how to, how can we assist many kinds of customers.
Yeah, that is the most
challenging part.
Is this the origin of the phrase matcha for everyone?
Yeah, kind of.
Yeah, the matcha for everyone is developed after we open Ari and we find that, we...
Yeah, whoever you are come to the store you should get a good cup of matcha.
Okay.
Either single origin or brand or very easy or very like...
really challenging matcha.
You should get one that you feel satisfied.
This is just a quick idea of matcha for everyone, but it is our task to complete.
I'm sure it's hard.
A lot of places struggle to do that balance because sometimes I feel when they offer a lot
of advanced options, like something that are very expensive, single origin, single
cultivar, it's very easy to start lecturing or telling someone why it's good.
Like this matcha.
super rare you should like it there is only this many kilos made and they slip into this
mode of Top -down selling.
Yeah versus like a more natural discovery process Yeah, I feel like you guys thread that
needle really well because I can walk into the MTCH since it could be right now and get a
really nice Asahi made as an Usucha and it's perfect and wonderful Or I can get in like a
frappe with yuzu
Like the staff feels well trained and like having those conversations at any level whether
or not you walk in and you're trying your first matcha or someone where you want something
very special Yeah, I can see how that was like it's a challenging thing to do because I've
seen so many cafes Sometimes I walk in and if I don't know I'm like afraid to ask a
question Yeah, it's kind of like if you go into a nice restaurant.
We open a wine list.
Yeah, like you're embarrassed to ask questions Yeah, totally.
How do you like break those barriers down?
How do you make matcha for everyone?
when you For the price point in Bangkok, the matcha is very expensive.
It's very expensive when you compare to the base salary or the average salary of the
people in Bangkok.
It's very expensive.
We are talking about like $5 per cup.
While the one mill cost like $2.
Yeah, so matcha is very expensive and it is a luxury thing.
So that's why we need to make sure that all the people that come to the store.
get what they want.
Yeah.
So that's why we do a lot of like role play situations.
Okay.
Yeah.
In the training.
In the training.
Okay.
Yeah.
We try to categorize the type of the customer.
Yeah.
Cool.
Yeah.
Just to share like in here, we have like three kinds of the customer.
The first is a new customer who come here without knowing anything.
Okay.
They just heard that this matcha place is nice.
they just try to come.
So what we should address them to get what they want and if they come back they will be a
second type.
This is like a repeat customer that they found something good here and they like something
and they come here maybe they want to get the same thing or they want to try something
new.
Yeah, so we should know them.
And the third customer is...
advanced customer.
They have many experience in tea.
Maybe they come from the English tea or Chinese tea industry or they are a matcha forward
customer.
So we should know how can we assist them.
So we do a lot of local training to make sure that the staff can be able to assist them.
You really feel that
translates.
watching just Everyone interact with the guests at the cafe.
Yeah.
Yeah, and and most of the thing when we talk about them The matcha is luxury in Bangkok
and people come here.
They expect a lot Yeah, not only the taste the communication is very important Yeah, yeah
to to make it right like most of the customers come to the come from the coffee industry
or The wine industry where the industry is much more bigger.
Yeah
the people are like a giant they got a great palate so that's why we need to practice a
lot and we need to we need to make sure that all the communication that we do is right
like when we try to describe the testing note this and that we have to make sure that all
the people in the team get the same thing yeah yeah yeah no you cannot this is very
important the thing that many customers
about over cafes when we write down the description of the thing is quite accurate.
I'm not saying accurate because it is not the matcha, it's not like a chocolate or that
kind of thing.
make sure that the people feel the same like when you put down the seaweed the nori, the
edamame the asparagus that kind of tasting note, All the people or at least all the staff
in the team need to be like agree.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, and when you are the customer come to...
Select this matcha.
Yeah, you that's the right expectation.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah So how did you go about the menu design?
I really like the organization because I feel like it's very easy to make a decision I'm
gonna do like light brew or latte or a specialty drink or hojicha And then within each of
them as you mentioned the tasting notes are really cool And I love how the tasting notes
are different.
Yeah, whether or not it's just with water or just with milk the OYT blend has completely
different
or maybe there's some overlap.
You even make the distinction on flavor profile of the same product depending on what base
it is.
How did you go about designing this menu?
How have you changed it throughout the last five years?
What's the rationale behind the product?
Decision engineering you have to do.
You mean how I select a matcha on the menu list or how can I approach on the menu?
I guess both.
Both menu design and what you put on it.
Let's talk about the user interface first.
User interface.
Yeah, the user interface.
I just want to make it comfortable for the customer as I can get.
Because like most of the customers in Bangkok 70 % come for the matcha with milk, the
matcha latte 70 % It used to be 80 % in the past but now people change People start to
shift to drink more just pure matcha It's good for me, good for us We try to design the
menu that can
can that easy to understand.
just make clear how to say.
create a section of milk and without milk.
So when the customer comes to the store, you got asked, right, would you like to matcha
with milk or without milk?
And if you say milk, you go to this.
If you say without milk, you go to that.
And we can explore what matcha we have today, later.
So that's kind of thing.
So that is the user interface.
And about the structure.
I just want to cover the choice of matcha that can go for the wide range customer.
We have very easy matcha like OYT brand.
It's very easy.
Casual and the tone the roasted sea the roasted cereal the roasted chocolate all that kind
of thing is very friendly for the new customer Yeah, or or it is a comfort zone for the
repeat customer as well.
So So we got to have this we got to have something that really stand out the taste of Yame
matcha.
Okay.
Yeah, I'm a big fan of Yame matcha.
So I got to have something that really a good example
or a presentation of Yame matcha and of course we have to got like the standard matcha
from Kyoto or like the very prime
selected plantation of Uji Matcha.
Okay.
Yeah.
Like, and also the award -winning.
We have to get cover the choice.
And when you think about the customer that I just shared, we have this for this, we have
this for that.
We have everything for everyone.
Okay.
Yeah.
So this is for everyone.
Yeah.
So this is, this is how I put the matcha on the list.
If you are like a crazy guy, want like the award -winning matcha or even the winning lot
matcha, have it for you.
Okay.
cool.
And the price, lot more than $5.
sure.
Yeah, but, I, I don't want to make it sky high.
Yeah.
Some, some people might think that when, when they, they got like the award winning
matcha, they, they, they mark it up like,
15 dollar.
yeah that's so expensive right or even way more like
In Bangkok, there's a cafe that costs a matcha 10 ,000 baht.
No, no.
1 ,000 baht.
Sorry.
1 ,000 baht.
Per Per bowl.
For a bowl?
For a bowl.
Yeah, for a bowl.
that's worth $30?
$35 something like that?
Yeah, that's too much.
I mean...
I have that kind of matcha too.
And if...
it is in our cafe it will be like just ten okay yeah just ten dollar and we think if
you're for something really special the price should not be like like too high too high a
lot more than your everyday cup of yeah in a lot of ways that's amazing because like
If you're talking about the best of anything, having some of the world's best matcha for
$10 for a usucha is insane when you compare that to something like wine.
Something like wine, a $10 bottle of wine is not going to get you anything special.
Or even a glass.
One of the coolest things about tea is the accessibility.
Even at the highest end, it's still not that bad for the best in the world.
Like when we talk about the wholesale price of the best matcha it can be like $1 per gram
right?
Yeah at wholesale price and when we do the usucha we use 2 grams Yeah, and then we sell it
for 10 grams.
I think it makes sense.
We don't have to like do the mark up
How to say do the math calculation and mark like $30 per cup.
Yeah, just because it's a scarce rare thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean the margin is not that high, but I think it's okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Especially because like people want variety.
it helps customers explore new flavors, discover what they like.
Anything.
It's like a little rock on their journey.
Yeah.
As they move forward in their Yeah.
Sorry about this part.
I, it is hard
explain in Thai because I haven't I never share this topic with anyone you know yeah but
this is good yeah and what else yeah about the how can I get started one menu right all
the menu all the matcha start with the usucha always yeah every time when I get the
samples or every time we would like to
reconstruct the menu, we will go back to usucha all the time.
It's very important.
we do a lot of brewing technique to get really know about the taste of the tea and how can
they produce the taste.
And then when we really know the taste of that tea, so we...
We make the recipe after.
When you do sensory analysis on new samples or matcha that you're thinking about buying,
do you always do it like as usu Cha or maybe it's also Koi Cha or maybe also with milk,
without milk, diluted, not diluted?
How many, when you're looking to make a purchasing decision, how many different examples
or preparation methods?
yeah, that's a lot.
I feel like you can do tons, but that's also
take forever to evaluate samples.
like, what works for you?
Yeah, like that.
Okay, everything.
Yeah, everything.
But koi cha is another thing.
Yeah, we started with usu cha.
If it can be like a good tea, yeah maybe it can be koi cha.
if it's decent enough, forget about koi cha.
Yeah, it's like that.
And when we started with usu cha, there are some highlights, there are some...
nice attribute that comes with the hot water.
Okay, we start to crack down the brewing technique, the brewing ratio that we need and
then okay we will get the recipe for the matcha.
The matcha drink we call it light brew in our cafe, right?
It is just like an Americano.
That kind of thing.
is an usucha diluted version.
That's my usual order.
Yeah.
The ratio is one to 50.
One to 50.
Yeah.
One to 50.
Okay.
While the usucha is one to 30, right?
Yes.
It's one to 50.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
That is the ratio of the total tea to liquid.
Okay.
Yeah.
But the extract.
The extraction ratio is another thing.
We can do like 1:10, 1:8, 1:15.
Okay.
I've been doing ratio experiments too.
I find 1 to 15, you get really nice foam.
It's interesting how the extraction ratio in your whisk really changes the taste of the
foam.
Totally.
And still I need to more experiments, it's something I feel like not enough people talk
about.
Yeah, not enough.
I have an advantage when working in the cafe because I'm not the one who needs to drink
the sample.
You know what I mean.
When people, they like to discover the brewing technique or they would like to...
to test the different shades of the foam or the time.
And when they do it at home, they are the one.
who has to drink that matcha.
And they feel hesitate to throw it away.
But when we work in a team and we have a group of staff who can do the sensory evaluation,
we have like 10 people.
That's perfect.
It's size you need.
Yeah, we have a 10 people group up together and we can do a ton of samples.
Because that way it's not too your preferences that you get a group consensus.
the consensus is very important.
Yeah, this word consensus.
get back to the testing node, it got to be like the group consensus.
I used to work a lot in sensory in my last job for large food and beverage companies.
Sometimes when they were making a new version, like someone's boss would be the final
decision maker.
A couple of companies that are famous where the CEO has to taste every new product, but
they don't like it, they don't release it.
They call it golden tongue.
And like everyone's so annoyed that they have to, like this one person's the decision
maker.
except people have other preferences.
That's awesome that can do that with so many people.
Yeah.
know some matcha in the list, like some of the special seasonal matcha.
I'm not a big fan of it.
But the team like it.
Like 5, 6 out of 10 girls like it.
Okay, let's do it.
And you got to make sure that you present it right.
Because you like it.
I recently discovered I don't really like Sincha.
Like that fresh matcha, it's too grassy, too green for me.
But like totally see how other people would like it.
It would be a shame if there was a blocker to present the variety.
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Sometimes I can be like a mad owner, like, okay, I like this one.
I got to sell this one and the people are not like it.
I mean, the team are not quite like it, but okay, if you want to do it.
your call.
Yeah.
Well, you should have to make sure you're the decision.
Yeah.
It'd be very painful selling a lot of things that you didn't personally like.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But still, that's cool.
knew you'd do it.
Yeah.
I got lucky.
I got a great team.
yeah.
Yeah.
the team that's got been there almost every day for the past couple of days.
thank you so That's amazing.
Watching everyone work and interact, it's very inspiring.
Thank you I don't know if we'll ever open cafes, but if we do, it's a...
really the high point for me.
Yeah, there's a lot of work at the back of house.
I'm sure.
Yeah, I noticed that.
All the...
By the time anyone sees anything, it's either measured or pre -dosed or they get it and
it's just the whisking and then it's like all the chaos of the complexity of preparation
is away.
And I've noticed too, like even when there's a cue, it's not boring and it's performative.
Like that one long bar is
almost a stage and there's always something to look at or to do it's you don't have like
the stress of waiting for your drink or going if it's gonna be ready.
Yeah, yeah, it sounds like forever right?
Like you see the people working all the time.
Yeah, it's really cool.
I've never seen anything quite like it.
yeah, thank you so much.
You should come to Ari.
I should.
I will.
Yeah, the last week and it was like a long holiday in Thailand.
Okay.
We have like three
It's a hell kitchen in the master version.
And I was there.
I am the head of whisking.
Head of brewing.
During this long holiday and it was so stressful.
But it's fun when we finish all the...
All the other pieces are so fun, so proud.
I've noticed too, even when there's a queue, it doesn't feel like anyone's cutting any
corners.
No one's panicked.
Everyone's just doing the best work they can do.
Some cafes you walk into, it gets too crazy.
They're running around, they're making a mistake.
It seems like they're not measuring things accurately.
Everyone's very composed.
It's impressive to watch.
There's no shortcut.
This is our work philosophy.
There is no shortcut and there is no compromise in anything.
For example, we talked about the brewing ratio, One matcha, if the recipe is 1 to 10 for
the brewing,
If you did it wrong, you make like 1 to 8.
It might be like just five mils.
Five mils of water difference right?
But no, this is wrong.
Make it again.
wow.
wow.
That's awesome.
Yeah, make it again.
Wow.
That's just like in the early days of like blue bottle, they pulled the espresso wrong.
Even if there was a line, they throw it away and make it again.
Yeah, throw it away.
Yeah.
keep it for yourself.
You make it again.
Okay.
And I'm not charged the staff.
Because I don't want them to like, okay.
don't want to...
fear.
Yeah.
They don't fear to accept the mistake.
Because you keep it for yourself.
Maybe it's not right on the recipe, but it is a decent cup of matcha.
But the customer needs to get what they order exactly the same.
Every branch, all the time.
So this is our philosophy.
And there is no shortcut.
There is no compromise in anything.
So that's why sometimes it can be so long to wait for a cup.
But yeah, we have to do it this way.
This is the only way.
I agree.
Very admirable.
It's very cool.
Thank you so much.
So you own and operate an ishi usu Yeah.
So what's that like?
It seems to be very rare.
think the only, there's one in Minnesota by a tea house that I always forget the name of
and Marc from Ooika Yeah.
That's one in New Jersey.
And I think you're the only one I've seen has a big one in Thailand.
I'm not sure it is the first and the only one industrial size ishi usu or not.
Yeah, but it was very challenging.
At that time, we would like to do the Sukhumvit cafe, right?
We think about this one is going to be like a headquarter.
So it's cut to show like the new innovation of the thing.
So we have the ishi usu to learn about the fresh mill That kind of thing.
And, it's very challenging because to have one mill is like, it's not profitable.
How to say it is not common we cannot make it commercialized because that's me.
It's too slow.
It's too slow Yeah, but we learn a lot with Yeah, Now now today we still like by tencha
and we still do like the experiment all the time.
But if you ask me, would I get another one?
No.
Too expensive.
Very heavy.
I'm sure the shipping is crazy expensive.
The shipping, at the time when we had the issue, we had to do the...
whole new electricity system.
Yeah, because the power load is not enough.
interesting.
So you can't just plug it into the wall.
No way.
Yeah, there's like a painful job to make it run.
But at the moment when it runs, I feel so proud.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I imagine.
Looks cool.
that's big glass box right at the door.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But actually that one was a wrong design.
I wish I could get a new updated one.
Okay.
Yeah.
When, when, when
it doesn't fall into like a closed box.
Yeah, on operation wise it's like very annoying.
Must take forever to clean.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But thanks to my team, they can clean it nicely and not take so long.
Okay, I was looking at it earlier today and I didn't see any matcha Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We cannot do the grinding at this time period because it's too humid.
interesting.
Yeah, it's too humid and it's raining.
Okay.
Yeah, and it affects.
Even the ishi usu in the closed
glass, display right?
they are still affected by Yeah, still affected.
The matcha gets a little bit stinky.
Okay, interesting.
yeah.
So I was walking by or into a cafe recently in the area coffee shop.
And I was looking through the menu and I was like, okay, I have to look at the matcha.
I usually don't get it in coffee place because it's usually I'm disappointed And I was in
a mood for coffee and I was looking through, designed by MTCH think it's So do you do this
for other cafes?
cool but it seems like you built their matcha program.
Yes and no.
I only worked.
for a tea partner with friends and family probably.
Okay.
Yeah, because I'm not that open to like the big company or the private or individual cafe
to come to approach me because I'm just the one who runs everything.
It's just me and my wife running the thing so we have no time to do that.
Okay.
So it's just for friends and friends.
Yeah, just friends.
A few lucky cafes.
Maybe not.
Yeah, I think it is good to have a space to explore to like the new...
wild range of customers because like the CPS Cafe or we just have a collaboration with a
major coffee company in Bangkok in Thailand the name is Roots.
Okay, Roots.
Yeah, Roots.
And I think it is a good channel to explore to the new customers and to show them how the
possibility of the matcha can be.
Yeah.
Because like when we talk about the coffee customer or the coffee drinker
sometimes they might think they have no idea how the good matcha tastes like.
yeah, that's true.
And I feel like everyone's first exposure to matcha, at least for just like normal people
who aren't into matcha already, is at a coffee shop.
Yeah.
They see it, they try it.
Yeah.
Especially in the States, the average quality of matcha is very low.
It makes me very worried how many people try it, say I don't like matcha.
Yeah.
And they never want to try it again.
Yeah.
And it's like, no.
I surprised when I started to work with many people.
At the time when I go to their cafe and they put the matcha, they store the matcha in, not
properly.
so I think this kind of like, this little detail, if I can help, it changed a lot.
Like how to store the matcha, how to sip the matcha before brewing.
People like to look over, right?
look over this kind of like little details.
yeah, like no one will notice or it doesn't change the taste that much but really all
these little details add up.
yeah.
How to your matcha, keep matcha in the fridge, sift the matcha, use the time like this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, totally.
so you have any growth plans for MTCH?
We have no expansion this year and also the next year.
I think three is okay.
It's a good pace for us.
And we would like to focus more on the back of house thing do more training, do more like
the service training, role -play training, sensory evaluation.
We would like to stop the expansion and focus on this.
wow, okay.
Yeah, that is our goal because we try to introduce
new Daring Challenging Matcha a lot.
We would to focus on the product that we made, the MTCH Air So other products as well?
Yeah, and other products, the home use thing.
That kind of thing we would like to focus on this because we got a lot of inquiries for
the...
the home brewing customer from...
outside of Thailand.
International customers from Southeast Asia, Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia.
Yeah, it's coming.
We're working on it.
I'm so happy to hear you're working on it.
Clearly, the ecosystem is evolving.
I think the foundation of the people is very important.
Like the coffee industry can go very fast because the foundation is very...
No one had to invent an espresso machine or a coffee grinder.
Like they had all the equipment, right?
Like they were ready to go.
But matcha it's not, it's still like you have to invent from scratch the way your matcha
program is going to be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I just listened to your podcast and you, talked to, the.
You me?
yeah, yeah.
He has a deep inside of the matcha.
Like where he put about the weight in the...
in the matcha industry in Japan.
no one, it is very hard to break in, it's very hard to get start a new tea company in
Japan.
Yeah, it is like that.
when outside of Japan, we have not that kind of boundary.
We don't have...
we don't have that custom to do that thing.
we can use all the power, creativity in our work and we can see it through.
Yeah, do something very different.
For sure.
So when it comes to matcha terroirs, you were talking about Yame, talking about Uji.
Are there any other places that you would consider to be important terroirs on someone's
educational journey?
So if I'm very interested in learning about different regions, and let's say it's wine,
there's famous regions like Bordeaux, Burgundy, Côte -D Napa Valley.
They're just things that you have to try to really understand wine.
Are there other places than Yame and Uji that you would recommend people taste?
understand the flavor variation exists with the matcha?
I haven't worked with the matcha outside Kyoto and Fukuoka that much.
I can...
So that's why I have a little idea about the place outside these two prefectures.
I can share with that there is a hip micro climate in Uji.
Or even in Yame that are so cool.
So maybe we can start with the...
You know, Yame is a big area, right?
The place is called Joyo Town.
You know Masahiro Kuma, Kuma -san.
He is an award -winning matcha in Fukuoka.
He made a fantastic gyokuro and he also made a very nice award -winning saibiduri matcha.
His plantation is very high.
I'm not sure it's 650 meters.
that sounds very high.
Yeah, very high and super strong sunlight and very thick fog.
Yeah, so this kind of thing will develop a very unique matcha profile.
When we talk about the Yame matcha, you might think of the matcha that gets heavily
roasted.
Roasted profile.
The cacao aroma or whatever.
Roasted.
But this one is not.
interesting.
It's so wow.
It's so young.
So naive but pure.
Super, super nice.
It's like...
You get a feeling of the...
unripped berry.
Unripe berry?
Yeah, unripe berry.
You get that greenness, get that funkiness.
Okay.
Yeah.
And the bitterness is nice, but...
It's like integrated in your balance.
Yeah, it's super, super funky matcha.
I like it a lot.
Okay.
Yeah.
So this is so hip.
And also talk about Kyoto, the place like the Ide town.
It's very nice.
Okay.
Yeah, very nice matcha, underrated matcha.
Okay.
The price per kilo is not so high.
Okay.
Super cool.
Some great producer in Minami Yamashiro, they do like the, the, the Tana cover The price
is okay.
Very umami.
And they, they work really hard about the soil.
They got, their plantation got a light, aspect.
To face the sun and the wind and the distance from the lake Viva.
All the things integrate to make a great matcha.
I really like it.
I just do the Uji class at our cafe and we showcase many styles of the Uji tea.
From the very typical matcha, matcha high volume production from Vasuka, that kind of
thing.
to like the extra niche one like my whole lot in Buji.
Okay.
Yeah, and it's really really fun and inspiring.
Yeah.
I feel like you could sub out Macha and you could be talking about wines.
The way you're talking about sunlight and slopes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's cool.
Yeah.
I did the WSET course.
cool.
Yeah.
Very cool.
My co -host, Zongjie, he does WSET too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It helped me a lot to.
I imagine.
Yeah.
Similar knowledge structures.
Yeah.
Structures.
The systematic approach to this and that, think it makes sense.
It gives me more clear pictures and logic to work.
Very cool.
I need to do it too.
It's one of my goals.
Yeah, it's really fun.
I recently started to import the Japanese wire to Thailand.
I saw that.
That's cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What's that like?
Japanese because Japanese wine super niche already.
Yeah, I know a little bit about it.
I don't think I've ever had any But my girlfriend's pretty into it.
She's had a couple examples.
Yeah, it's very fun It's very pure And energetic very funky.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, but I like it I'm not a big fan of classical wine, but I mean
Classical grape wine.
Okay, yeah.
Interesting.
Like more to like the natural wine movement, low intervention.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that kind of thing.
Yeah, totally.
And when we go back between the wine and the tea, we feel that it is the same thing, a
work of labor, a work of like full of craftsmanship.
Yeah, lots of patience to make the thing, to get the work.
to keep the high standard of the work.
Yeah, I can feel the same thing.
So just as one last question before we wrap up, I'm very curious, why is Bangkok such a
hub of advanced specialty matcha culture?
Even when you compare it to places in Japan like Tokyo or...
Kyoto or places in the States or in Europe that I've been to, has this flourishing
ecosystem of all of these matcha vendors.
It's so popular.
so, it really feels like it's like the best city in the world to come to try and learn
about different matcha.
And I am very confused why.
Yeah, it's hard to describe.
You know, at the time that we started MTCS, we never expected that in one day Bangkok is
to be like a hub of...
of the new movement of matcha.
But I think at that time, I think there are like a lot of coincidences when we start to do
the matcha thing in Bangkok.
We started to do the matcha cafe, specialty matcha cafe, which is very new.
And in that time, we get locked down with the COVID.
People cannot move around to other country, right?
So when people...
cannot travel, they start to explore the new thing.
And at that time, it's just not me that opened the specialty, Matcha Cafe.
There are like lots of couple names of Matcha Cafe in Bangkok at that time.
So I think the people, they stay in Bangkok, they discover the thing and they keep to help
to promote.
Yeah, and we become it become a culture.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then it feels like it's a lot of locals at these much.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's not just tourists like in Japan, like you go to a place in Fuji, know, street.
Yeah.
There's a few Japanese people, but really it's mostly foreigners.
Yeah.
You can put it that way because I think it's right by the local.
Yeah.
Totally.
We have like the people who come to the cafe and appreciate the new concept of the matcha.
or the people who start to make their own matcha at their home.
So it's based on very local, so that's why I think it's become a hub.
Because when we talk about the hubs, it is like, it's their daily life, the life of the
people, all the people who can get into it and they feel like, they don't feel matcha
is...
fancy or strange thing.
It becomes approachable.
It's not like you have to all these steps to do it right.
It's something you can do every day.
So when it becomes more approachable, think people start to learn a lot.
There's a new cafe, there's a new tea importer, there's a new thing that all the time.
So that's why I think all things together make Bangkok a
quite unique.
Yeah, building up all this local base.
It's really grass -rooted.
even the Japanese people who were in the tea company when they come to Bangkok, they feel
surprised.
Yeah, because it's not like this in Japan.
If you don't go to Kyoto, you don't go to Asakusa, Tokyo, you don't get any matcha vibe.
Yeah, absolutely.
In here, there are new matcha shops open every week.
wow, okay.
Yeah, every week.
Or even they cannot find their physical location, they do like a home delivery.
home delivery.
Home brewing and make it delivery.
Okay, like using the Grab network.
Yeah, so you see how it's flourished That's awesome.
That's so cool.
That is so cool.
Well, thank you so much for being so generous with your time.
Yeah, thank you so much too.
Nice to talk to you.
Yeah?
Sorry about my English.
no worries.
Yeah, a little bit.
No, no, no, it's perfect.
So if you enjoyed this podcast, please consider rating us or sharing with a friend and be
sure to follow MTCH on Instagram, if ever in Bangkok.
You have to stop into one of their cafes for sure.
And thanks, Jev.
Thank you.
we'll see you on the next one.
Thanks.
Bye.
Bye.
