\Uji and Yame 2025 with Jacque & Matcha

 

 

Ryan (00:00)
Hello and welcome to the Specialty matcha podcast. My name is Ryan and this is my co-host Zongjun who also goes by Sam.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (00:06)
Hello, hello.

Ryan (00:06)
and we're the co-founders of Sanko Matcha Products.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (00:09)
Yeah, we launched this podcast to discuss our learning journey in matcha share startup stories and interview experts. And today we have Jacque join us from Jacque and Matcha Welcome back, Jacque

Jacque (00:19)
Hi, it's good to be back.

Ryan (00:21)
It was great to finally meet you in person in Kyoto. That was special.

Jacque (00:24)
Yes, I really had a great time you guys and thank you for everything for even taking me around.

Ryan (00:31)
Our

pleasure, our pleasure. It was a

Zongjun (Sam) Li (00:33)
That was super fun.

Ryan (00:34)
fun day.

Jacque (00:35)
Yeah, because of that trip, really wanted to make sure that I get to visit every harvest season. Because I feel like, wow, the city is just filled with tea people.

Ryan (00:49)
Yeah, it is. The number of like, matcha founders that we got to meet with over the course of two weeks, I think we met like eight, nine or 10. it's like everyone, like

Jacque (00:59)
Yeah?

Ryan (00:59)
descends on this place, which, you know, this, I don't know if it's a bad time for tea farmers, but

Jacque (01:04)
Yeah.

Ryan (01:05)
for everyone to meet each other, everyone that has these like internet like friendships, but like the

Jacque (01:10)
Yes.

Ryan (01:11)
in-person that was so special.

Jacque (01:12)
Yeah, and even like I met some of, I met a few people also, right? But I also started making new friends online. People that I messaged me like, oh you were in Kyoto too, but we didn't get to see each other. And then now we like, you know, exchange messages online. So that was really good. And

Ryan (01:34)
nice.

Jacque (01:34)
yeah, and then I even told them, I hope I get to see you the next time you guys come to Kyoto or wherever.

because

I really like meeting new people, especially in the tea industry. It's quite fun.

Ryan (01:47)
Yeah, me too. It's really special to meet in person. And

Jacque (01:52)
Mmm.

Ryan (01:53)
people are just in general are great. And it's rare because something I realized both in like this podcast, but also meeting people face to face is actually don't like a lot of us don't get to have like inter industry friend conversations where.

Jacque (02:09)
Yeah.

Ryan (02:10)
They all have the same problems. Like we're all like

Jacque (02:13)
You

Ryan (02:13)
working through the same things. And I know we all, we went to dinner with Brian from Matsumacha.

Jacque (02:19)
Yes.

Ryan (02:20)
It was just a really special conversation.

Jacque (02:22)
I was even

Ryan (02:22)
Try this.

Jacque (02:23)
telling my husband about it, that dinner with Brian, I was like, it was so great because we were just geeking out about all things tea, we're talking about the business side of things, we're talking about the farmer side of things. And I'm like, I don't really get to talk to a lot of people like that way just because I don't see them in person. And everything that we talk about on the internet, like on Instagram, it's quite short. So...

Ryan (02:50)
Yeah.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (02:51)
Yeah.

Jacque (02:51)
It's really nice to go

Zongjun (Sam) Li (02:51)
Yeah.

Jacque (02:52)
deep and just go crazy and go geek out about tea.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (02:57)
And I feel like that there's just a general lack of, how do I say, opportunity? Like, occasion for people to like geek out with each other.

Jacque (03:06)
to me.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (03:06)
It's quite simple

Jacque (03:08)
Yeah!

Zongjun (Sam) Li (03:10)
to have those moments, you know, to happen in real life. And I feel like that's the only really occasion that we can have, you know, very naturally geeking out against each other.

Ryan (03:21)
Absolutely. So how was your sourcing trip? I guess it wasn't sourcing, like learning trip and meeting farmers and also getting to interact with a whole lot of other tea people on that journey as you went from place to place in Japan.

Jacque (03:35)
Yeah, so I've visited tea farms before and I've met other people in tea before but it was on a really small scale and it was like I was the only one who planned it. But this one, being introduced to certain farmers and award-winning farmers too was really life-changing. And I am not exaggerating, there were so many points in the tour or in

the trip.

that made me tear up. And I was

Ryan (04:05)
So wow.

Jacque (04:05)
just in awe that I get to see and experience all these things like firsthand. Things that I've only read about before or seen photos of before. But actually stepping in that place smelling things,

Ryan (04:21)
Mmm.

Jacque (04:21)
pleasant or not, feeling the heat inside the processing facility that was something else, tasting the tea right in front of the farmer.

That is just quite special, I feel. A tour is a tour, right? If you just go to a place, this is what we do, this is what happens here. But to have a more personal conversation with the people who are there, that's different, I feel. To be able

Ryan (04:50)
Mm. Yeah.

Jacque (04:52)
to ask the farmers what they feel about certain things, or have them share.

having share about their craft so even if we had an interpreter which helped a lot so my chico san helped a lot but i feel like there's even so much more that i i wanted to understand but i couldn't because of language barrier like

Ryan (05:10)
Mm.

Jacque (05:11)
i feel like they could they wanted to share more at least the people who were talking to so yeah

Ryan (05:17)
what was really cool about it, because we weren't on the tour, but it's a really unique time because the set and setting is specifically for learning. Like

Jacque (05:27)
Mm.

Ryan (05:28)
anytime in, like anyone in the match industry goes to visit farmers, like it's not explicitly commercial, but there's like this undertone of a buying relationship that people are trying

Jacque (05:38)
Yes.

Ryan (05:39)
to set up. But like in a setting where there's

that expectation doesn't exist on either side necessarily. You can

Jacque (05:46)
Mm-hmm.

Ryan (05:47)
probably ask and be a lot more curious and direct with questions that maybe would feel more uncomfortable in other settings. Did you get that sense in the other people that you were with? How did the group engage in that relationship with these farmers? And it's specifically when trying to learn things from them.

Jacque (06:07)
Like a lot of questions were brought up, definitely. What's great is that Marc also asked us, if you have any questions, you can prepare

it beforehand. This is the perfect time to ask questions. So we really did prepare, or at least in the moment, as we were going through the conversation, we would ask questions. And it was really great, because it's really just like, so how do you do fertilization? What is present in your fertilizer?

or like how labor-intensive is it to like take down the scaffolding after like after you do shading all of those things that I think you would just glaze over if it was just like a business conversation of like buying and purchasing so I feel like we were able to ask them about a lot more things that would have been skipped if it was just like a transactional thing if that makes sense

Ryan (07:00)
Yeah, oh no, makes sense.

Jacque (07:01)
right?

even as little as them showing us the anatomy of a tea plant, mean come on, it's right in front of you, they teach you, they let you touch it, they let you taste it, that's something else. So because I can only compare it to the other time that I visited the farm and that was just literally, you can go take pictures, it's great, you're in a tea field, but it's

Ryan (07:24)
Ha ha ha.

Jacque (07:25)
not, right? It's not like you

staying there for a few hours and talking to them. Because it's so funny because

Zongjun (Sam) Li (07:33)
That's

Jacque (07:34)
the farmers were generous enough to let us do the picking. And I know how hard that is in a sense that we're all newbies. Imagine having like 20 people pick your tea

Ryan (07:44)
Hahaha.

Jacque (07:46)
and then zero experience, right? I'm pretty sure they had to sift through the tea that we picked afterwards. And it's like double labor.

But it was such a generous thing to have us experience that. So we were there for like, probably two hours in one farm. And even if it was hot...

Nobody felt it. Like we were all just having good conversation while we were picking tea.

Ryan (08:09)
Yeah.

Jacque (08:10)
And that was such a great, great moment. I feel like, yeah, that was like one of the highlights I feel. Because I was able to get to know the other people in the tour that I was with and also get to do this like really special thing of picking tea. That is like a very rare cultivar. So

That to me was just, this is insane you guys. I can't believe this is happening.

Ryan (08:36)
Hahaha

Jacque (08:38)
So yeah.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (08:39)
That's very cool. You know, it's very interesting because Marc from Ooika is the organizer of this trip and

doing his organization, he

Jacque (08:49)
Mm-hmm.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (08:49)
kind of positioned everyone as students, which at the time I felt that to be a little bit strange, but turns out like this is a wonderful strategy. Like turning this into a more of an educational tour versus like a quote unquote sourcing tour.

like really helps the farmers and the manufacturers to open up. I feel, I really feel the same way with some of my other tea trips too, which are not like necessarily very transactional. We there to learn more about tea and you know, the farmers are much willing to share more information in those kinds of scenarios.

Jacque (09:24)
Yeah, actually we felt that too in a sense that when he addressed us as students on the tour, we were kind of like, what do mean we're students? This is a tour. It didn't feel that way in the beginning, but then he explained to us after that we're all students. It's students of like tea And he was trying to explain that,

even I am still a student. So it's like a continuous learning journey. And that kind of changed the perspective that yeah, we are here to learn, we are here to like get to know what happens behind like each co that served to us, right? And so yeah, it was really educational and very hands on, I feel. I bet there's a lot more things that we could have done. Like,

As the activities were happening, we could have done this, we could have done that. I guess it's just us trying to feel the moment more or be able to maximize everything because we're here and it's very rare. yeah, I'm excited. If this happens again, it's definitely a lot of learnings from this tour, right?

everything will be smoother in a sense because you know like when things are done for the first time when you pioneer something of course there's going to be struggle but at least in a logistic sense if that was done like if it was just Marc going to all of those places I'm pretty sure it would have been an issue because he is like very like by himself very agile can move to one place and another but when it's a bigger group it's kind of like harder to manage but

we were still able to all have communication and relationship with the people that we visited, which I appreciate a lot.

Ryan (11:14)
Hmm.

Jacque (11:14)
yeah,

because like he would always encourage us like to keep asking or approach them or like seal things, you know, like, come up, touch the leaves, touch the shading, like touch everything. So,

Ryan (11:27)
You

Jacque (11:28)
yeah.

Ryan (11:29)
What was the group dynamic like? Because I feel like it's like a huge part of the experience of doing something like this. It's just like being surrounded at all times by other people that have like the exact same interest and like are like willing to set aside what was it like over a week of their lives and a lot of

Jacque (11:47)
Yes, it was over a week.

Ryan (11:48)
money to learn more about matcha in a really intensive way. So I'm very jealous of like the...

possibility of like forming a community like that because like it's rare that you have the opportunity to spend that much time with that many people

Jacque (12:08)
Yeah!

Ryan (12:09)
over something so specific.

Jacque (12:10)
It was really great and I feel like that's one of the best things that I got from this tour. Because these are different people who are interested in tea from different countries. So it was really amazing. I know you met some of them during your podcast with Marc. So like one guy is from Czech Republic, one guy is from Bangkok, another couple is from Hong Kong. And then a lot of them are from Mexico City.

and then different parts of the states and we were all just there really curious about tea and some are just tea enthusiasts meaning they don't own businesses while the others are business owners so it was also nice to be able to have conversations about the struggles in doing a tea business with different people around the world because I feel like we even tried we even made a chat group

so that we could consult each other after the tour. Because we feel like,

Ryan (13:09)
that's cool.

Jacque (13:10)
yeah, it was really great. we were all like, we should keep in touch. Because I'm pretty sure we go through the same problems.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (13:18)
what are some of the common difficulties around the world that people are facing in the TE community right now after talking to them face to face?

Jacque (13:26)
A bunch of things. feel like number one for sure, especially in the season would be like finding supply that's quite stable. That's

all of us for exchanging notes as to who do you get your supply from or like how much fee do you have to buy or stuff like that. So there's a lot of exchanging notes and contacts as to who we know can supply a stable.

matcha powder supply And then also, I guess, educating the consumer base. Because I would ask them, like, how knowledgeable are your customers about tea? Like, are they very particular? Do they look for certain things? So

One of the guys, Peter from Chicago, he said, they're into matcha, but they're not yet too specific. Meaning they're not very picky when it comes to the cultivars or whatever. They don't ask that kind of questions yet. While other consumers are like a little more, how do call this, Like they know, they have a basic idea as to how.

matches produced or like what it takes for you to produce proper matches so they can ask questions. So they do get asked proper questions. So you would also talk about

actually doing workshops, like what do you teach, what is the contents

of your workshop and all of those things. even like just basic, I guess, business problems in a sense of how is it that when you operate a shop, like what happens if this happens or when you encounter HR problems, let's say staff training and education. So all of those things.

kind of came up at different times, or even as basic as like, when did you start and how is rent and how is like, you know, building in

Ryan (15:23)
No.

Jacque (15:24)
space or renovating. So those things are, those things are the ones that we talked about or at least touched on. So, and even some of us are also like very curious as to how we can do.

of course, milling outside Japan, right? It's such a big obstacle that a lot of the people in the tour group actually wanted to be able to do in their countries.

apparently there's like a shortage for the stone mills that are crafted in Japan. So just like any other, I guess, industry and art form that a family would usually focus on one thing and do it really, really well. But just like the cha-sens, the number of families who are actually making the stone mills are like

Twirling, I guess. So that's one of the issues. You can't find mills or can't order them right away. And also there's a factor about learning how to mill and all of those things.

Ryan (16:31)
Yeah.

Jacque (16:32)
So that is one big conversation that we talked about.

with one of the tour members because we were like, we really wanted to do milling, but like it's so hard to resource and it's also so expensive. And then bringing it to our country, like what if something happens, like how are we gonna fix it? Do we ship it back? So

Ryan (16:53)
Hahaha

Zongjun (Sam) Li (16:54)
Thank

Jacque (16:54)
stuff like that. And they're not far. Technically, I am one of the closest who lives like, I'm from the Philippines.

Ryan (17:00)
yeah.

Jacque (17:01)
So I'm just like, what, three hours away from Japan?

Meanwhile, they have to travel like 12-14 hours to get there.

So

Zongjun (Sam) Li (17:10)
Yeah.

Jacque (17:11)
that's like a bigger issue. So yeah. And also, weirdly enough, even if like I can't personally relate to it, we also talked about like tariffs and how it's affecting businesses in the States and even like... So all of those things that we're all like, my gosh, what a time to start a tea business.

And this is all happening at the same time. There's shortage, there's stereotypes,

Ryan (17:35)
Yeah.

Jacque (17:37)
there's shortage of like even tin cans. Like it's crazy. But having to meet and talk to a lot of people made me feel like, I'm not alone. And we're all going through this at the same time. And we would also like encourage each other.

that even if all of these problems are like coming up that we just have to push through with it that it'll get better and when you do something and you're at the beginning of it or like pioneering something of course it's gonna get tough but like

Ryan (18:12)
Hmm. yeah.

Jacque (18:13)
it'll

Zongjun (Sam) Li (18:13)
Yeah.

Jacque (18:13)
like it can only get better from here like yeah we're producing we're supplying tea to wherever we are based and there's a shortage

But because of the demand that's happening right now, for sure the farmers will be able to put up infrastructures in the future, but that'll take a while. But it's also because of our businesses that kind of like made that happen. So we just kind of have to ride it out.

Ryan (18:39)
Yeah

Jacque (18:40)
So all of those

Zongjun (Sam) Li (18:39)
Yeah.

Jacque (18:41)
things, like it's crazy and it's encouraging, weirdly, that because we were able to talk about the same struggles, we are also just

got inspired and be like, hey, know what, whatever, we can do it. and also getting inspired because of the trip. I think that helps a lot because it put like, it put like a purpose.

Ryan (19:03)
Hmm. Yeah.

Jacque (19:03)
to what we're doing. There's passion,

there's purpose to it. It's not just like, yeah, let's put up a business about something that's really popular right now. It's not that. What's great is that everyone who was there in the tour genuinely wanted to learn more about tea and wanted to study so that they could definitely understand it and share it with their customers in a better way.

And I really,

really appreciate that, that we are all in the same mindset almost. Like, hey, there's so much misinformation, you know, like

Ryan (19:35)
Yeah.

Jacque (19:36)
it's best to learn, it's best to learn like where the source is at so that, yeah, we get to share the right information to the customers or to the circles that we belong in.

Ryan (19:47)
absolutely. It's nothing like Johnny Matcha I think his tagline is know the source. I think it

Jacque (19:53)
Yes.

Ryan (19:54)
really like that. I really like the spirit of that and like physically being there and like talking and tasting and smelling just really makes it all become very real. like, I don't know, feel like it makes everyone like a bit more like emotionally invested, like in that culture and

Jacque (20:13)
Yes.

Ryan (20:14)
producers and these people.

relationships, the traditions. It's really cool every time we go back. feel like that gets doubly reinforced.

Jacque (20:24)
Mmm.

Ryan (20:26)
As you met with

Jacque (20:26)
Yeah, it-

Ryan (20:27)
the producers, because you guys went to both Uji and Yame,

Jacque (20:31)
Yes.

Ryan (20:32)
what were the vibe differences between those two places?

Jacque (20:36)
Hmmmm

I feel like Uji has their own thing going on. mean, not own thing, it's more of their own struggles that they have to face. Definitely one of them is defending the name Uji Mancha. Because

Ryan (20:51)
Mm.

Jacque (20:52)
we met

Zongjun (Sam) Li (20:52)
Yeah.

Jacque (20:53)
with the 10th generation farmer, Taishi-san from Shimizu Farm.

Ryan (20:59)
Mm.

Jacque (21:00)
And I really, what's great is that he speaks English. So conversations with him were super detailed. And he was able to share a lot with us. Not just with farming, but also being able to put up his own cafe in Uji City. So from there, we learned a lot already. But yeah, he would share about the different struggles that farmers go through, farmers based in Uji go through.

like of course there's one is land like a lot of the things are being developed around Uji so that means less farmlands for for tea to be to be raised and cultivated

i guess and then also like protecting the name because Uji tea is quite special and popular but as you already know like not all tea that's labeled Uji tea is actually

grown and produced and Uji. So, you're

Ryan (21:55)
Yeah, very little.

Jacque (21:57)
right. So things like that. And it kind of made me realize that, wow, some of the struggles go beyond the shortage, go beyond global popularity. Like some

Ryan (22:11)
Yeah.

Jacque (22:11)
struggles can actually just be within that circle. And it's already

so tough. So I feel like they're going through so many things. But yeah, that's what I feel. In Uji, they have those issues, right? And then in Yame, it's also quite different. I feel like Yame is a little more chill.

Ryan (22:32)
Hmm, okay.

Jacque (22:33)
And I guess it's also the location. Because when we visited the farm in Uji, it was literally in the middle of a highway. So imagine

Ryan (22:41)
Yeah.

Jacque (22:42)
walking into a honzu shaded tea farm. And then right when you go outside, it's the highway. Or there's a flyover above your head. So

Ryan (22:52)
Yeah.

Jacque (22:52)
it was definitely a different

Zongjun (Sam) Li (22:53)
Yeah.

Jacque (22:54)
vibe. So that was in Uji. It's more City-like. And then when we went to Yame, it

It was lot more laid back because we were in the mountains. It was super chill, super cool. So I feel like that's the vibe a little bit. It's more... How do you feel? It's more industrious feeling in Kyoto and in Uji.

Ryan (23:15)
Hmm.

Jacque (23:16)
And in

Zongjun (Sam) Li (23:17)
Yeah.

Jacque (23:17)
Yame, it was more relaxed.

Ryan (23:20)
Yeah. That matches our

Jacque (23:20)
and chill? Is that like-

Ryan (23:23)
experience a bit too, because we were walking around the Shirakawa region of Uji and

Jacque (23:28)
Hmm

Ryan (23:29)
Gokusho region. And it's so sad. You can tell that this was once agricultural land. the

Jacque (23:36)
Yeah.

Ryan (23:36)
families are trying to hold on. there's like, house goes up here, highway cuts right through here. And

Jacque (23:45)
Mmm.

Ryan (23:46)
it feels like...

It's

just a vestige

Zongjun (Sam) Li (23:49)
Yeah.

Ryan (23:50)
of a very different time. And like, it's really sad that there's this gigantic highway. Like, and this is like, not just like, this is all over Uji. Like, they'll just

Jacque (24:01)
Mmm.

Ryan (24:01)
cut right through like, tea fields. And it's

Jacque (24:04)
Yeah.

Ryan (24:05)
really sad to see.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (24:06)
Yeah, the amount of development happened

is astounding over the past

few decades. And a lot of the tea fields just vanished. It's very sad.

Jacque (24:18)
Mmm.

So yeah, like, because I know that in Taishi-san's experience, I feel like some of the land that they used to own had to be used for public use, right? Like for roads and for like anything that the city would need. So that means smaller lands for them to be able to grow their trees. So like, that's sad.

Ryan (24:41)
Feels like they have more room down in Yame and like everywhere else too.

Jacque (24:46)
In Wazuka, they have so much room.

So yeah, when we visited Wazuka, that's also like a different vibe altogether. It's quite industrious, just like Uji, but it's like rolling hills of tea bushes. So it's also like a

Ryan (25:03)
Hmm.

Jacque (25:05)
different vibe. So yeah.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (25:07)
Yeah, it was quite amazing.

Jacque (25:08)
But I feel like a lot of the farms

in Yame are very small. At least the ones we met. Their business is not the super commercial exporting kind. It's more of family-owned, small businesses. That made it a lot more special to me, actually.

So yeah.

Ryan (25:28)
Did you notice

any differences in the processing facilities? Because you guys visited Hoshino then, right? Down in Yame? And their processing

Jacque (25:37)
Mmm.

Ryan (25:38)
facility versus the traditional Uji ones? Because they say it's like Roasty Toasty in Yame, and then Umami and deep and rich in Kyoto Prefecture.

and in Uji, did you notice that in the processing and when they were describing the processing differences at these facilities?

Jacque (25:58)
For Kyoto, at least the ones I noticed is that they have... Well, it also was present in Yame, but they have red brick ovens that

Ryan (26:07)
Mm.

Jacque (26:08)
they use to dry the tea leaves. So I know we touched about this when we were talking with Brian, that red brick ovens... What do call this?

Does it reflect infrared or does it help balance it out?

Ryan (26:23)
Yeah, it's like infrared, radiant

energy versus like just like convection, hot air. It's the infrared.

Jacque (26:29)
Yeah. So I.

So that one, I was so surprised to see the red brick ovens in person.

Ryan (26:39)
Mmm.

Jacque (26:39)
When we were talking about it, our trip hasn't started. So it was like, OK, I've only seen these in pictures. So I didn't really notice it. I mean, I didn't realize the effect. But then the ones that we went to actually use this.

Red brick ovens, I've been with them for a while. But differences in processes, not a lot different.

Ryan (27:07)
Okay.

Jacque (27:07)
What they call this? I forget which area you're at. Wait, can I check my notes?

Ryan (27:13)
Sure.

Jacque (27:14)
Because there was one farmer that shared that he, they make their tea, they process their tea with a different temperature. This was in Hoshino.

Ryan (27:27)
Okay.

Jacque (27:28)
Let me check.

Okay, there. I found it. What they use, they called it, that smell, that smell of roastiness, they called it kauri. Or hikauri. So, in Yame,

Zongjun (Sam) Li (27:39)
He called it.

Jacque (27:40)
one of the, yeah, one of the producers shared that they actually, like, in, I think in Kyoto, they do like a process of drying, right? But in Yame, they do like a second...

Like they say that they heat it again.

Ryan (27:54)
Okay.

Jacque (27:55)
So I feel like it goes through a second round of drying. The second round of drying, he said, adds aroma to the tencha

Ryan (28:05)
Okay.

Jacque (28:05)
So that is something that I took note of. Like when he shared it, of course, like explaining it could have been better if we understood Japanese. But that's what he said that

it goes through like a second round of heating to add a robe. So that's what's different from what was shared when we went through like the processing facility in Uji versus the one in Hoshino.

Ryan (28:32)
Okay.

Jacque (28:32)
So yeah. Because they go through like four rounds of drying. Like they

Ryan (28:38)
Ha ha ha.

Jacque (28:38)
slowly dry it, right? Because it's like a knock on the conveyor belt.

Ryan (28:41)
Yeah.

Jacque (28:41)
So in

Uji, it goes through four times for it to dry into Aracha. And then, yeah, they add, I guess, another level of heating when it comes to yame and mochino.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (28:53)
I wonder if the extra step of drying has anything to do with the local temperature and humidity. Because when we had the experience of seeing some of the processing, Tencha gets wet very quickly if you just let it sit in the open air. And depending on the humidity inside the facility and also in the local environment.

I wonder if that would have been the cause in the beginning of why Yamei has that extra step of drawing.

Ryan (29:23)
Mmm.

Jacque (29:24)
could be a possibility because of course it's a totally different terroir and they're in the mountain so probably the humidity level is quite different so in the beginning in order to preserve inoculum in the tea they had to do like an extra step of drying right and then it

Ryan (29:40)
Yeah.

Jacque (29:42)
contributed to like it being nutty and toasty and then distinct to the region

Ryan (29:47)
Yeah, that's interesting.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (29:48)
Yeah.

Ryan (29:49)
yeah, that'd be cool to find out because something we've noticed in doing all of our mill testing too, like we're developing

Jacque (29:55)
Mm.

Ryan (29:56)
the mill in the Guangzhou, Shenzhen area, which is super humid.

Jacque (29:59)
Yeah.

Ryan (30:00)
you know, if we leave Tencha, sit out for too long or like don't pay attention to resealing the bag perfectly. I remember

Jacque (30:07)
Mm.

Ryan (30:08)
we left and then we came back two months later and we...

realized our Tencha bag wasn't perfectly sealed. The color went from like that beautiful, like dark green, like, you know, like the, with the slight blueish hue, like the really

Jacque (30:24)
Mmm.

Ryan (30:25)
high quality Tencha look to this like really disgusting, more pale

And we touched it and it was like soft. It was

Jacque (30:32)
Slightly damp, yeah?

Ryan (30:34)
like absorbing water from the air.

Jacque (30:36)
That is super possible.

Ryan (30:39)
Like, tencha is really sensitive to humidity and to

Jacque (30:43)
Yeah!

Ryan (30:43)
moisture, which made me think, I think this is why matcha just degrades like that. The moment you

Jacque (30:49)
really fast.

Ryan (30:50)
open the can, it's because now imagine you've exposed all this surface area. It is hungry for that moisture, and it probably pulls it right

Zongjun (Sam) Li (30:59)
yeah.

Ryan (30:59)
out of the air. And the moisture

Jacque (31:01)
Mm-hmm.

Ryan (31:02)
is what really accelerates the...

the degradation and oxidation reactions that's going on.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (31:07)
And

think about the places that you end up opening that can of matcha. It's in the cafe countertop, it's in your kitchen. It's really

Jacque (31:17)
more.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (31:18)
the most moist place that you can think of.

Jacque (31:20)
Yeah, and it's Mira water supply, right? It's probably Mira kettle

Zongjun (Sam) Li (31:24)
Yeah.

Jacque (31:25)
or sink.

Ryan (31:26)
Yeah.

Jacque (31:26)
But yeah, I totally agree because when we touched denture, it was almost translucent. Like some of the tea leaves are translucent, right? Because they're like young leaves

Zongjun (Sam) Li (31:36)
Hmm.

Jacque (31:37)
and then they're dried and then their veins and stems are removed. But when you put it in your tongue, it kind of like goes soft really fast. So I can just imagine it being exposed to humidity and then slowly absorbing all of it.

It's, yeah, it really degrades fast.

Ryan (31:55)
know, such a... And so many ways like matcha just shouldn't exist. Like the amount of work,

Jacque (32:00)
in this nation.

Ryan (32:02)
how quickly it degrades. Even if you just make a cup and you let it sit in a glass, it'll settle to the bottom. It's just like, it's such a transient, fleeting thing at every stage. And how much

Jacque (32:13)
Yeah

Zongjun (Sam) Li (32:13)
Yeah

Ryan (32:14)
work it is to just get it to come to life.

Jacque (32:17)
And I guess solidifies the idea of being the tea of choice in tea ceremonies, Because they teach you to be present and in the moment and enjoy what's going on. So probably that's one of the things as to why matcha is what it is.

Ryan (32:33)
Yeah, very much Ichi-go ichi-e

Jacque (32:36)
Okay? Like it's a fleeting thing.

You open a tin

Zongjun (Sam) Li (32:39)
Yeah.

Jacque (32:39)
of matcha for the very first time and it's all these complex flavors and stuff. And then a week later, two weeks later, it's totally different from the first time you opened it. So

Ryan (32:51)
Yeah.

Jacque (32:52)
yeah, can never

Zongjun (Sam) Li (32:52)
Yeah

Jacque (32:53)
be replicated.

Ryan (32:54)
Nope.

Jacque (32:56)
Ha!

Zongjun (Sam) Li (32:58)
I will forever remember my first experience smelling the kowoling coming from Tenju and how drastically it changed like two days later. I almost thought that Ryan swapped the tea and trying to take the good tea for himself.

Ryan (33:14)
Ha

But we're hoping fresh milling can help and the machine we're developing can help re-replicate the day one shelf life on demand, which it should be able to help

Jacque (33:28)
the next step, right?

Ryan (33:29)
Yeah, logically it feels like this is like the next evolution because like you preserve

Jacque (33:33)
Yeah.

Ryan (33:34)
taste, you preserve nutrition, just the infrastructure has to catch up.

Jacque (33:38)
Yeah, because it's very similar to coffee. When they discovered you can grind it in your home, there's so many advancements that happen when it comes to the grinders. So now that

Ryan (33:50)
Yeah.

Jacque (33:53)
people are paying attention to matcha, I feel like finally the infrastructure will be better.

Ryan (33:58)
Yeah. And I think that in matcha it's even more important, arguably, than in coffee. Like, I'd

Jacque (34:04)
Yeah.

Ryan (34:04)
rather have pre-ground coffee than... I'd rather have fresh ground matcha than fresh ground coffee. Like, it's...

Jacque (34:11)
Yes.

Ryan (34:12)
which might be a controversial thing to say to some coffee people, but like, already has a very strong taste. Like, matcha is delicate and like, it's like...

The moment like some flaw or something happens to matcha, it just becomes so obvious.

Jacque (34:27)
Mm-hmm.

Ryan (34:28)
And like it really stands out in a way. like, where in coffee, find it's kind of gets covered up a little bit just because it's an intense beverage.

Jacque (34:37)
I feel like coffee brewers have certain recipes that still bring out the best qualities of coffee even if it's past the ideal roast date or grind

Ryan (34:48)
Mm.

Jacque (34:48)
date. They have those things in place. As to matcha, you can't change a lot.

Ryan (34:54)
No, you have very little control.

Jacque (34:56)
Right?

Ryan (34:56)
You're lucky just if you get some supply. It gets a very...

Jacque (35:00)
Hehehehehe

Ryan (35:02)
In the hierarchy of needs, it's much lower. It's like, can we buy it?

Jacque (35:07)
Right?

Exactly. Like for now, it's not what people are aiming for or looking for. Now it's just like I just need to get my hands on some matcha and I'll be good.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (35:18)
And you also have all these sophisticated equipments to preserve coffee beans, like all these vacuum containers and all that. And I wonder if in the future, as we are moving into more fresh ground matcha, storing tansha is going to be a problem, and properly storing tansha

Ryan (35:35)
Mmm.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (35:36)
especially.

Jacque (35:37)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I can see that, like, I can compare it so easily just because I also have access to, how coffee is produced. Just because, like, my husband, they also have, like, a roastery. So imagine the comparison. It's so easy to make. Like, all the struggles that, say, when comes to tea and having it fresh ground versus, like, coffee, that there's still so many things that you can do right now, at least.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (36:05)
Hmm.

Jacque (36:05)
That's

your

Ryan (36:06)
Yeah.

Jacque (36:07)
eye. They have like, what do call it, protocols in place for coffee already, which doesn't

Ryan (36:12)
Yeah.

Jacque (36:13)
exist in film just yet.

Ryan (36:15)
Not yet. It will.

Jacque (36:17)
Yeah.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (36:17)
It will.

Ryan (36:18)
Did you have any, like, what were some of the more, like, inspirational moments, you know, meeting with these tea farmers or with your fellow travel partners in your time in Japan?

Jacque (36:28)
One of the things that stood out to me, I think, is when we were talking to one of the tea farmers in Yame, Kurozumi-san. So he's actually an award-winning tea farmer, not for matcha but for gyokuro But he also produces matcha. And so we were talking to him. This guy has a really great sense of humor, by the way.

Ryan (36:50)
Yeah.

Jacque (36:51)
just goes through language barriers, I swear. So we were talking to him and then at first it was just like, you know, really funny replies or something. And then eventually we asked him what he thought of the shortage. And I believe I posted about this on my social media account also, but like we asked him what he feels about the shortage or just the increase in demand worldwide.

And then he answered that he was scared. And then he paused. And then he said, I'm scared that because of the demand, not a lot of people will be able to taste real matcha. And I kid you not, that made me tear up. And our translator, Machiko-san, noticed it as well. And he was like, my gosh, you're making me cry.

Because I feel the effort that they do, right? They put in so much work to be able to produce such great things, high quality things, only to, I don't know, be overtaken by someone who has bigger supply, I don't know, or a country that can provide something similar. I understand that fear.

So I guess I was really affected by it. So that's one of the things that kind of like, my God. I guess that's the reason why I am extra affected and vigilant when I see something that's being presented online that's not supposed to be, especially when comes to tea or matcha. Because

Ryan (38:22)
Mmm, yeah.

Jacque (38:23)
I've talked to farmers like Porizumi-san who has that fear.

And I can't help but feel it so deeply. Even if it's technically not my immediate responsibility, I feel like I should be able to do something about it. So

Ryan (38:38)
Yeah.

Jacque (38:39)
that's one of the highlights for me. Or one of the things that stuck to me.

Ryan (38:45)
It's a powerful moment. Did he

Jacque (38:47)
Yeah.

Ryan (38:47)
offer any like remedies or like ideas of how like some of that can be solved or was it just an expressed emotion and then it was kind of a concluded thought.

Jacque (39:07)
What's great with him is that he actually owns his own processing facility. Not to

Ryan (39:14)
wow.

Jacque (39:14)
grind matcha but to be able to turn it into Tensha or Aracha. Aracha

Ryan (39:20)
Okay.

Jacque (39:21)
and then they can do Tensha. But not a lot

Ryan (39:23)
Okay.

Jacque (39:23)
of farmers have that. So it's either they share a tea processing facility, it's like a co-op thing, while Kurozumi-san, he owns his own tea processing facility.

And he renovated it actually. So Marc was

Ryan (39:40)
no.

Jacque (39:41)
sharing that when he was there last year, the facade wasn't great, it was a really old place. And then when we came last month, he fixed it. And I feel like that is... And he also shared that that is him trying to keep up with the demand and be able to shoulder, I guess, the...

the labor of processing the tea instead of just having it sent to a co-op and then there's like a bottleneck that's happening.

Ryan (40:08)
Hmm.

Jacque (40:09)
So in his end, like he is doing something to be able to help. Yeah. Because it's not cheap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not cheap

Ryan (40:17)
Absolutely, lot of agency. That's expensive.

Jacque (40:22)
to be able to like put up your own facility and have it renovated and like all of those things.

It's not cheap because they're already spending so much on the tea fields, like labor and all the materials that's needed. yeah, it's a big risk, but a lot of the farmers are now starting to do it, I feel. yeah, the best way is to really support those farmers.

Ryan (40:47)
Did the farmers you interact with express what they want the future to look like? Because it's a weird opportunity for them, like if you flip

Jacque (40:56)
Mmm.

Ryan (40:57)
around the perspective, because you have people, like as you said, from Mexico, from Hong Kong, from Philippines, from the US, from Czech Republic, from all over the place, who

Jacque (41:08)
Yeah.

Ryan (41:08)
have just spent all this money to come to your doorstep specifically to learn, because they love this product that much.

That must have been incomprehensible to their grandparents or something.

Jacque (41:22)
Yeah

Ryan (41:23)
It's such a weird thing that that happened. the consumer base has shifted so radically. Did you get a sense of their thoughts on...

how much occult is being spread, the new consumers that are consuming it, and what they want to see as this moves into the future.

Jacque (41:43)
Actually, a lot of the farms that we visited, they weren't really open to lot of foreigners, which made it extra special just because they usually wouldn't open their space or their homes to people who are not Japanese or outside of the tea industry altogether. So that was great. And I feel like that's a first step that they are actually...

Ryan (42:11)
Mmm,

Jacque (42:11)
not the first step,

Ryan (42:12)
yeah.

Jacque (42:12)
but they're realizing the effect of their product across the globe. So that's one thing, that people are actually coming to them and seeking them out and wanting to learn from them. And definitely, they are working hard to be able to, one, keep up with the demand. And there's also government help for it.

Now they're giving incentives to help these farmers be able to produce tea. A lot actually are shifting from doing loose leaf teas that they're now trying to do Tentcha just to be able to produce Matcha. So they are understanding the gravity of it. But I don't know if this is in the right context, but I don't think...

The price increase has reached the farmers yet. Does that make sense? I don't think the amount that they're paid for for the tea that they produce has increased as compared to how much it is being bought by the consumers now.

So there's still a lot of things that need to be worked out, but they are very aware of the sudden boom. And I'm kind of getting this feeling of like, just be patient with us kind of thing, you know? Because you also, I know that there's a huge demand, but they can't just keep producing things just so they can keep up with the demand, especially...

if they are, especially that they're the type that values like quality and values like doing things in a traditional way.

So that's one thing. That's why I felt like I feel like they're also asking for just a little bit of patience, you know? So that, yes,

Ryan (43:51)
make sense.

Jacque (43:52)
we can supply to you, but you gotta be patient with us too. Because they're also having a hard time.

Ryan (44:01)
Yeah. They've a lot of responsibility to bear and not only their

Jacque (44:06)
and remember.

Ryan (44:07)
own, but the reputation of their family and the region. And

Jacque (44:10)
Yeah.

Ryan (44:11)
like the gentleman you spoke of, you know, he's a tea farmer, but he also has to coordinate with like a bunch of like people to come pick the tea, but he's also a factory

Jacque (44:21)
Yeah.

Ryan (44:22)
owner and a factory operator. And like he also has to deal with probably an export department and sales.

Jacque (44:29)
Mm-hmm.

Ryan (44:29)
distribution and like it's a lot of hats to wear.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (44:34)
he probably has more agency

than lot of small farmers. A lot of the smaller farmers probably

Jacque (44:41)
Yeah.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (44:41)
got really sheltered away by the larger tea houses or tea brands. By the end of the day, who sells the product makes the most money, right?

and the profit hasn't

Jacque (44:55)
Yeah, yeah.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (44:56)
necessarily trickled down to them yet, which is kind of cool to see, you know, like, all of us are slowly, you know, venturing into all these, not necessarily the super traditional regions like, you know, Wuji

Jacque (45:09)
Mm-hmm.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (45:12)
or like, Game, but also like to all the areas around it. And I think, you know,

There's it's going to be soon that you know all of these butcher go down and spread to all of these smaller regions and smaller farmers

Jacque (45:25)
Yeah.

Ryan (45:26)
It's really a shame that foreigners can't participate in the commodities market, right? Because everything just gets sold or the auction market.

Jacque (45:33)
Yeah, yeah, it's super

like private

Ryan (45:37)
Because in every other industry, in chocolate, you can form direct relationships. But I mean, you can also buy from cooperatives. You can buy at auction. Same thing with coffee. I mean, even specialty coffee has its own commodities market, where we can have access to these things at lower prices and then do our own value add. Like either coordinate

Jacque (45:58)
Yeah.

Ryan (45:59)
a milling

facility to get it milled and then onwards, or if you have the capacity to mill it yourself, mill it yourself, or do some of the end processing yourself. And the fact that it's very hard to buy from these farmers unless they have very vertically integrated from the tea plants all the way through Tensha. If they

Jacque (46:21)
Yeah.

Ryan (46:22)
don't have that infrastructure, we don't have access to it.

But if we had access to it, we could get way more money to smaller farmers that would directly go in their pocket. And maybe it would, you know, one downside is probably really raises the price for the traditional players, all the Chachis and the blend houses that are a really important

Jacque (46:42)
In which?

Ryan (46:43)
part of the ecosystem. But the other benefit is that it probably would make it a much more attractive profession. Yeah,

Jacque (46:50)
Yeah, for the younger generation.

Ryan (46:53)
exactly.

As I was listening to the global

Zongjun (Sam) Li (46:55)
Also.

Ryan (46:55)
Japanese Tea Association did some videos of interviewing some farmers in Shizuoka and they were talking about, yeah, we're switching to yuzu and shiitake mushrooms. Tea

Jacque (47:06)
no.

Ryan (47:06)
is too much work. The price is too low. That's a real thing. And I think if foreigners

Jacque (47:15)
Yes.

Ryan (47:15)
had access to the commodities or the auction market,

could really raise the price for these people that we

Zongjun (Sam) Li (47:22)
Yeah.

Ryan (47:23)
don't have access to. A lot of structural change. don't think it can happen.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (47:25)
And

also, the fact that you're giving money directly to the farmers, not only making them rich, which is very nice, but also you're making these farmers much more risk resilient and probably will be more risk taking in terms of investing for...

larger productions or more processing facilities. And one thing that we've been talking to the farmers and they have shared the concerns is that investing for production, investing for equipment, investing for upscaling the garden is very time and capital consuming. And lot of farmers just do not necessarily have the cash flow to be able to do that.

Jacque (48:07)
Yeah.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (48:09)
And the fact that we can give them a lot of cash flow will probably make them much more willing to take the risk and expand their production.

Jacque (48:18)
That's true. I don't know. I hope that happens, right? That they open these things up to foreigners. But even... Because even in Japan, they're quite private about it. It's almost like a secret society that you can't step

Ryan (48:33)
Yee-haw!

Jacque (48:34)
in an actual auction for tea. And unfortunately, women can't really make a stand too, even if you're Japanese.

Ryan (48:43)
Yeah,

Jacque (48:44)
And it's mostly male.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (48:44)
wow.

Ryan (48:47)
went to a talk in Toronto from someone who started a B2B matcha business in Canada. And it was a

Jacque (48:55)
Mm-hmm.

Ryan (48:55)
Japanese woman, but I think she grew up in Canada. And she did an internship at the Shizuoka Tea Auction, which I think is the largest tea auction house in Japan. And apparently

Jacque (49:05)
Mm-hmm.

Ryan (49:06)
she was the first woman on payroll

ever.

like it was very

Jacque (49:13)
Wow.

Ryan (49:15)
recent like Japan has a very long way to go like seriously like it's crazy

Jacque (49:20)
Yes.

I saw this in a video documentary or something. It follows a Japanese woman's family tea business. His father is the one who does all the blending and chooses all the teas to be bought in the auction. Even if she is technically the second-in-command because she's the one being trained to it.

She can't make much decisions, especially during the auction It's still her father and another male colleague that's not family. They really still value this role to be filled by a male versus it being taken up by a woman. And that video was literally a year and a half ago or something.

So it's still happening.

Ryan (50:08)
AC.

Jacque (50:09)
Yeah.

Ryan (50:11)
Yeah, it's like the whole society is complicit in it.

Jacque (50:15)
Mm-hmm.

Ryan (50:17)
I mean, that's the other benefit to opening it up to foreigners too. Someone who really wants to pursue this can open it, add the value, get access to the commodities market, and then create these products outside of the system. The problem is you have to be in the system to participate, and that system is

Jacque (50:33)
Yes.

Ryan (50:34)
deeply sexist.

opening it up to foreigners is also opening up the system to everyone,

Jacque (50:40)
you

Ryan (50:41)
in theory, where you don't have to be in the system. it's, because like, imagine like, like your family coffee business, like, like your roastery, like, it would be

Jacque (50:50)
Yeah.

Ryan (50:50)
wild if like, they didn't have access to green coffee. And like being able

Jacque (50:54)
Mm-hmm.

Ryan (50:55)
to buy that on the market at the like, the prices that all coffee roasters can, like, imagine they had to go to like, blue bottle, or something, or,

Jacque (51:01)
that, yeah, yeah,

yeah.

Ryan (51:03)
beg someone for like some finished product, right? Then the whole business is predicated on adding value in the value chain, right? Like the roasting, the curation, the preparation, the cafe space. And like we, there's very few people who have access to add any value other than much education and, you know, selling on products that like have, there's very little value left to do.

do unless you're milling matcha fresh. And it's very frustrating.

Japan has a long way to go.

Jacque (51:38)
Yeah, I feel like they're so advanced but not really. In a lot of other aspects, they're super advanced. a part of them, some of the practices, I feel like it's still quite dated. And they're resistant to change, right? They're not as comfortable when comes to change. So it may take a while.

Ryan (52:00)
Did you encounter very many

women in the tea industry when, like, just in all of your sourcing trips in Japan?

Jacque (52:07)
One of the families that I get tea from, Pogacar.

What they call this, the one who's handling all of the exporting and all the outward communications, she's the daughter. So she's a woman, which is great. And even her mom is really active in the business. that was actually, they're the first family that I actually met. And then I was...

I wasn't surprised that they were women, right? I was more surprised to find out later on that that's quite rare.

Ryan (52:45)
yeah. Interesting.

Jacque (52:46)
Yeah.

Ryan (52:46)
It's like the after realization once you like meet more people.

Jacque (52:50)
Like all the

other all the other communications that happened afterwards I was pocket to see me

Ryan (52:56)
Okay.

Jack, I saw your recent collaboration with The West End. That looks really cool. Congrats on that crossover. That's really cool. I'd love to learn more about what that is and how that came about.

Jacque (53:11)
Yeah, it's really exciting. Like to be honest, it did not sink in to me in the beginning. It felt like, okay, perfect. I found like a space where I can do it a lot more regularly. And then I realized that I am partnering with like an international company. So it's like, it's really

Ryan (53:29)
This is huge!

Jacque (53:31)
in vain. So that

Zongjun (Sam) Li (53:33)
Hahaha

Jacque (53:33)
was really great because they reached out to me and

The Westin Manila, their focus is about wellness.

Ryan (53:42)
Okay.

Jacque (53:43)
So they were really trying to look for different activities that, know, powering that message through. And one of the things that they were looking at was matcha. And of course, matcha has its health benefits, right? So they wanted to do activities related to it that they can offer not just for their customers and clients, but also like to people outside who are like,

really interested in getting to know this Japanese tea. So it was just a great collaboration because they gave me like... they were just very open to like, okay, you can teach everything about matcha Like, up to you, tell them about the health benefits, tell them about the processes. And I'm like, really excited to do it. So yeah. Yeah, the

Ryan (54:30)
nice, a creative freedom.

Jacque (54:32)
creative freedom and they're so supportive.

So we're gonna be doing that once a month until October. Yeah. So we're

Ryan (54:39)
wow, that's great. That's cool.

Jacque (54:44)
doing it every Saturday, like one Saturday per month. So the first one is gonna be in July. And it's really exciting because like when I started doing workshops, there's not a lot of workshops happening yet. At least that's focused on matcha. There's probably one or two.

And then when I started doing it, of course, like that was a year ago and I learned so much since the first one. Then I kind of feel like, my gosh, is there like a certain injustice to the first people who participated in my workshop? Because

Ryan (55:17)
You

Jacque (55:17)
all the ones who will be able to attend the following ones or at least upcoming workshops will definitely have a lot more access and information.

because of everything that I've recently learned. But I also had to, I guess, make peace with the idea that it is a constant learning journey, not just for me, but for everyone who's interested in matcha and tea. So I just hope and pray that the previous participants kind of had this like passion and curiosity that sparked in them, that allowed them to like seek out these information themselves, you know? But yeah.

Ryan (55:54)
Or you can teach

an advanced course.

Jacque (55:57)
That's

it. my gosh, I wish I could do something like that. But sometimes I feel like I this thing that I have to make sure that I equip myself first before I'm able to do something and share it with others. Because it's quite,

Ryan (56:11)
Fair enough.

Jacque (56:12)
yeah, right? Like it's quite hard. can't just like, you know, I can't just gather stuff from the internet and like teach it. So it's really valuable to me that I was able to travel.

I was able to talk to different people, not just the farmers and tea processors and tea suppliers, but also you guys, like different people from the tea industry, from different parts of the world. All of those things add up to the stuff that I get to share with the participants in the workshop.

So yeah, it's really exciting. And

Ryan (56:43)
That's awesome.

Jacque (56:43)
imagine from the first, like the podcast that we did last December, was it? And it came out like early 2025. We were talking about pop-ups.

Ryan (56:53)
Yeah.

Jacque (56:53)
And that was like, that part of like my tea journey, I think has ended. I think. Because now it's

Ryan (57:01)
Okay.

Jacque (57:02)
all about like workshops and like,

I feel honored to be able to do that. To be able to share everything that I learned. Especially now that I'm so adamant to share the right information. It's

Ryan (57:21)
Yeah, it's super important.

Jacque (57:23)
a privilege to be able to be given a platform to be able to

Yeah

I'm really, really grateful.

Ryan (57:29)
We're taking notes.

Jacque (57:30)
Yeah, it's crazy. I really did not picture myself to be in this journey, I would say. I'm just a geek. I just like to read stuff, research stuff, watch stuff, and talk to people and learn more. And it led me here. And I'm just really thankful.

that I get to share it.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (57:52)
That's awesome. Yeah.

Ryan (57:52)
We are too. And really appreciate you

coming on the podcast again.

Jacque (57:57)
Thank you

guys! It's an honor to be able to be part of the contest. You know, it's

Ryan (58:02)
Let's go.

Jacque (58:03)
crazy. Some people from the tour group, the first few days we would introduce ourselves, right? And then let's say three days in or four days in, one or two of them would be like, now I remember you. They said that they knew my voice.

before they knew my face

because they listened to the podcast.

Ryan (58:24)
Yeah.

Jacque (58:26)
And it's crazy that

Zongjun (Sam) Li (58:26)
That's great.

Jacque (58:27)
I, because of, it's amazing. Like because of this podcast, I was able to connect with other people far beyond my reach. It's crazy. And even meeting Pau and Obubu Farms.

Ryan (58:40)
yeah.

Jacque (58:40)
Yeah.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (58:40)
Yeah.

Jacque (58:42)
So that was like amazing.

Ryan (58:43)
No, we're really are happy with the podcast is kind of evolving into a community space because the more we like progress along in our own company and tea learning journey, the more people I meet that like are very like-minded and just like

Jacque (59:00)
Mm-hmm.

Ryan (59:00)
people don't know each other. Like it's really great to have a platform where people can be introduced to other people in the industry.

Because even I was talking with someone just yesterday who was doing a collaboration with Obubu and we got chatting and

Jacque (59:13)
Okay.

Ryan (59:14)
the conversation just lasted for a half an hour. We're resonating

Jacque (59:17)
Amazing.

Ryan (59:19)
so deeply about specialty matcha and promoting what the farmers are doing and different consumer behavior patterns and how people are developing healthier relationships with caffeine.

Jacque (59:34)
Yeah.

Ryan (59:36)
really interesting and we're really happy that the podcast can be for a way to help cross awareness that other people exist and what their focus is and their experiences. It's something that I'm really personally very satisfied that it's evolved that way.

Jacque (59:53)
Super. Like just the amount of people I met because of your podcast is insane. yeah, like even Johnny, John from Johnny Matcha, Brian from Matsu. I met Marcel briefly in person. I

Ryan (1:00:08)
yeah.

Jacque (1:00:09)
mean, right? Like we bumped into him. So that was great. I talked to Dee of Homecoming Matcha online.

Ryan (1:00:14)
Hell yeah.

Jacque (1:00:15)
So like.

It's really nice that you're able to do this and connect people. I hope you get to

Ryan (1:00:23)
for sure

Jacque (1:00:23)
do those dinners when we all

Ryan (1:00:24)
yeah, that's right.

Jacque (1:00:26)
go to Kyoto all at the same time and have a community meetup.

Ryan (1:00:31)
Yep, that's goal is in-person community dinner.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (1:00:31)
Yeah, let's do a big party.

Jacque (1:00:35)
Yeah.

Ryan (1:00:36)
Well, think it's a great place to stop. Thank you so much, Jacque for coming on again. And

Jacque (1:00:40)
Thank you.

Ryan (1:00:41)
really, we're really excited about your work. We need to make a trip to the Philippines to go to one of these Westin workshops.

Jacque (1:00:45)
Yes!

Ryan (1:00:47)
That's super cool crossover. Congrats. It's a huge day.

Jacque (1:00:50)
You know, thank you. you.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (1:00:51)
Yep.

Ryan (1:00:52)
And to our listeners, if you enjoyed this podcast, please consider sharing it with friend, and we'll see you in the next one. Thanks.

Zongjun (Sam) Li (1:00:59)
See you in the future.