Interview with Matsu Matcha, Bryan

 

Ryan And Sam (00:00)
right. and welcome to the Specialty Matcha Podcast. My name is Ryan. This is my co -host Zongjun Hello, hello. And we're the co -founders of Sanko Matcha Products. Yeah, we launched this podcast to discuss our learning journey in matcha, share startup stories and interview experts. And today we are happy to have Ryan from Matsu Matcha. Welcome, Bryan

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (00:18)
Hello, hey everyone.

Hey. So happy to be here.

Ryan And Sam (00:23)
for on. you give everyone a little background on yourself and the Matsu matcha brand

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (00:29)
We are getting very close to the launch and I'm super excited about it. But just some information about myself. I'm a dad preneur. So basically I run a company currently, I'm running a digital advertising agency that focuses on performance advertising.

and serves clients across multiple different industries and we work with clients like Google, WeWork, like Exverse and a couple of F &B brands in Singapore as well. And the specialty is running and targeting premium customer segments in APAC and maximizing their revenue for them. So that is my gig, my core hustle.

right now and this is the main reason why Matsu Matcha is being delayed so much in terms of its launch. And by being a dad preneur I am a father of two kids, two and four. So yeah, as you can tell, there's a lot going on right now in my life, but I feel that it's high time that I kind of chase my passion and do what I really love to do, which is matcha.

Ryan And Sam (01:21)
I'm sure.

got you inspired to start a matcha brand? I know you were a pretty prolific matcha consumer, a lot of competition grade tea. We were just talking before this recording about learning and going to these tea houses in Bangkok. noticed a lot of your, at least on your Instagram feed, a lot of very rigorous tasting notes.

and changing different things and different proportions and talking about the outcome. So what's your matcha origin story and journey been like lead you to founding Matsu?

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (02:01)
So my journey probably started eight years or more ago with like matcha desserts and matcha parfaits and matcha soft serve and maybe also like some matcha bakes. So that was like my entry into matcha and I think pretty much for a lot of matcha consumers as well, it's all through desserts. I mean, it was, it's very rarely that they start off with ushucha or koicha because it's, I would say...

Ryan And Sam (02:19)
Mm -hmm.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (02:26)
probably an acquired taste like after a while. Yeah, and matcha parfait was like my comfort food when I was really stressed up at work and in life. that was like my entry point. And I then went on to try matcha lattes. So my experience with matcha have always been in retail and shopping malls and cafes and also like home -based bakeries in Singapore. And then gradually matcha became more popular in Singapore.

And then I started to buy ceremonial matcha, not knowing what each of the description means and just simply talking what was marketed as like good matcha in Singapore. And yeah, I think maybe even like in 2017, 2018, matcha marketed in Singapore as 100 % first flush is supposed to be considered like good quality matcha. But then as we know, like now that we are

in the industry. It's, it's, mean, first flash matcha is like the bare minimum for like ceremonial grade So, so I think there is a big gap, like in the consumer knowledge in how matcha is supposed to taste like. At least now in retrospect. Yeah, then after that, I bought as many matcha powder as I could in retail, wherever I go, and especially Japan as well. And I would drink, experiment, and then about

Ryan And Sam (03:23)
Yeah.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (03:44)
two to three years, somewhere maybe like for about two to three years, maybe five to six years ago, I was trying really hard to get like the perfect foaming for matcha. After seeing a lot of matcha influences and seeing a lot of like nice foaming videos and pictures, I was trying to get that for myself. And I was really experimenting a lot and slowly through experimentations and trying, I figure out how.

Ryan And Sam (03:56)
Bye.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (04:10)
And I kind of like, I'm quite stubborn. didn't really want to use like measuring apparatus. I didn't want to use like thermometers to measure the temperature of the water. I kind of just like to save it naturally, like straight from my water dispenser. And I don't use like mineral water. mean, I know filtered water is bad taste, but yeah, it's the easiest way to do it. So I kind of like do it naturally and I enjoy like figuring out how to make matcha.

Ryan And Sam (04:19)
Yeah

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (04:37)
using my own quotes and my own ways. Yeah, but I also kind of wanted to mention firsthand that I'm not trained in traditional tea ceremonies, so I try to call myself like a modern matcha fanatic, but as much as I can, I try to embody the feelings, the intentions, and also the philosophies of like traditional tea ceremonies when I make my matcha.

So as I drank more and more matcha, I started to recognize the flavor of umami profile. And I also realized that the more umami matcha is, it also means higher quality. because sometimes I love matcha so much, I tend to overdose on caffeine and my body with signs of rejection. But I also realized that the higher the quality the matcha is, the more I'm able to intake and enjoy.

Ryan And Sam (05:15)
Hahaha

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (05:24)
So then this changed my perception of matcha and realized that high quality matcha is not just purely in taste, but it also has significant health benefits and it changes, like significant changes that you can do to your body for the high quality matcha.

Ryan And Sam (05:40)
sure. Very cool. I've noticed too that the high umami matcha makes me feel better. I don't know if it's just more L -theanine, a better sense of wellness compared to less umami forward matcha, but feel great after consuming a really umami heavy matcha. I think that that led to me developing a preference for umami taste.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (05:58)
Yeah.

Yeah, I kind of believe that it is the L -theanine, because when there is more days of shading, whether or not it is honzu or the artificial material used for the shading technique, it kind of produces more L -theanine and that produces more calmness and it balances out the spike in alertness from the caffeine.

Ryan And Sam (06:25)
Mm -hmm. Yeah interesting just out of my own curiosity I've Not been to Singapore in almost like five six years 2018 we were there for work What what is the much a scene look like right now in Singapore? Like do you see that very frequently in coffee shops or do you have like like much a specialty shop in Singapore as well?

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (06:38)
Ooh.

Now there are two specialty matcha shops in Singapore. are major brands called Matchaya, which is basically another name for a matcha house. And also Hvala, H -V -A -L -A. So these two are the most major brands and they are always competing with each other in terms of locations and popping up here and there with supposedly major investments from investors.

Ryan And Sam (07:01)
Okay.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (07:17)
They have been around in Singapore for probably maybe seven or ten years. Yeah. And in recent years, the popularity of matcha is growing quite a lot. even like, for example, Japanese festival related events in Singapore, there will be pop -ups serving matcha gelatos. There will be pop -up serving like matcha drinks and that

It's an increasing demand for matcha workshops in Singapore, up to corporate events as well. And even as you go to more more cafes, you will start to see matcha being offered as an option in drinks. And also I would say that when you ask almost anybody, like, do you like matcha? And they'll most probably say yes. But as for whether they are really usucha matcha drinkers, I mean, that's another thing.

Ryan And Sam (08:04)
wow.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (08:10)
I think quite a lot of them in Singapore right now, still prefer like the more robust flavour profile for matcha. So like the more bitter, slightly astringent, so long as some maybe grassiness or vegetable or slight umami coming out, that would be considered a good matcha. And I think Singaporeans currently, they still enjoy their matcha in

in the form of bakes or confectioneries. Like for example, like matcha bake boxes. I just received one today. And they will make matcha terrine matcha choux puffs, matcha medleines, things like that. So it almost gets sold out immediately when a entry kind of like on chip.

Ryan And Sam (08:49)
interesting.

Wow.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (08:55)
So yeah, the demand for this is quite high. And as a matcha fan in Singapore, like maybe eight or 10 years ago, I would say that it's increasing in popularity. So that's also what encourages me to set out to do this business because I mean, to be honest, I'm a little bit scared because I'm not sure all the investments that put in so far, will it pay off. But from what I'm seeing, like it's getting more popular in Singapore. Yeah.

Ryan And Sam (09:21)
because Singapore is such a diverse place. You have a large Chinese population, South Asian, Malay, a lot of foreign expats as well. Do you notice any demographic based on matcha interest in Singapore or is it just seem to be everyone?

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (09:40)
I think, at least from my circle and from what I've heard from other business owners who are in the industry, I would say most of the matcha consumers are Singaporean Chinese. And then you have like a small percentage who are Singaporean Malays. But other than that, I haven't really encountered like

other matcha fans of other ethnicity, which I'm sure there are. It's just that probably I haven't met them yet.

Ryan And Sam (10:08)
I know we were doing some work in India two years ago, and I was just recently back in Delhi for a little while, and I was searching to see if there was any matcha scene at all, and we didn't see any. Probably the chai drinking culture is too strong. Yeah, too strongly.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (10:25)
Yeah, is pretty big

too in I mean, not as big as matcha, but Chai is picking up popularity as well.

Ryan And Sam (10:33)
That's cool.

So your social media platforms, you talk a lot about intentional learning, your sort of learning journey. So what are some of the principles that you've discovered in making a better cup of matcha? you've improved your own tea practice over the years and as your preference has drifted more and more towards these umami heavy,

like much more premium ceremonial grade offerings.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (11:01)
So since for most consumers in the world, we do not practice traditional tea ceremonies. All this that I'm sharing will be based on my own interpretation of how like a modern matcha drinker might be in today's society. You can call me somewhat of an Urasenke style matcha practitioner.

because I tend to enjoy the smooth matcha foam and I relish in how smooth and how it plays with the light and I would swirl the foam around. So it's really satisfying for me. Though I also enjoy using my dark -colored suit bamboo, kind of like susudake bamboo chasen, to whisk my matcha. So that's in a way unlike Urasenke, which uses like the white bamboo.

Ryan And Sam (11:40)
Nice.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (11:45)
to whisk. So it's kind of like a mix of both and that's why I say that I don't really belong to any traditional tea ceremony ritual. But of course, one of the main philosophy that I think is important is that it's important to find your own routine, like from washing your teawares to rinsing the teawares with hot water to like drying your teaware and making tea and cleaning up

process, all of these steps, it's important to find your own routine and try to incorporate that into your own daily routine. I would encourage everyone who's listening on a podcast to try to matcha every day because of the health benefits and how it's so good at replacing coffee. And essentially discover and find your own matcha -making routine. There's really no strict way to make matcha.

So for myself, I normally would open my bag of matcha. I would take a few good sniffs at the matcha powder. And sometimes I would take my chashaku and then I would eat the powder raw. Yeah. So I kind of feel that the best way to...

Ryan And Sam (12:50)
really? Okay.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (12:59)
Like the best proof of a good quality matcha is eating the powder raw. So I kind of like, I'm quite extreme that way. And even before like I started Matsu matcha, when I try all the samples, I would try to eat the powder raw first. So I overdo quite easily because I'm eating a lot of powder. Yeah. So after that, then I will warm the bowl. I will feel the warm of the bowl on my face and I would sift the powder in or...

Ryan And Sam (13:15)
Yeah.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (13:24)
I would shine a bowl against the sunlight to take a good look at the color of the powder to see how fresh it is. And then I'll take a few good sniffs from the bowl. And then I'll make koicha. And then from the koicha, I will add in more water to make usucha cha, like the normal matcha. So that's like the whole thing.

Ryan And Sam (13:39)
⁓ cool. With the leftover

from the bowl that's still touching it.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (13:44)
Yes, yes.

kind of put, I mean, from the start, I already put like four grams. That's like my normal matcha routine. And then I kind of like take two big sips of that, that koicha and then I would make the leftover with matcha. And I think that would be left like maybe 2 .5 grams, which is just about right for usucha cha. And the temperature of the water is

really, really important as well. Like sometimes I would take just five minutes away to look at my phone and like the water temperature can just like change quite drastically. And the quality of the forming that I do when I whisk will be affected as well. it's quite important to do things a little bit faster when we are just whisking the matcha. And also like the matcha powder that we purchase

also matter in the level of forming that we can get to make that perfect bowl of matcha, at least for that perfect forming. So I put it on my IG reels yesterday that from my knowledge that there are probably about 7 ,500 to about 10 ,000 stone mills in the whole of Japan from some research. And that means that not all matcha powder are ground equally at 40 grams per hour.

So the rest of it, so this is equivalent to about, I guess, maybe 15 % of the entire matcha supply in Japan. So maybe the other 85 % could be using ball milling it, maybe 10 kg per hour. I'm not sure, but probably you guys have more clear information on this, but this is just what I know. So yeah.

Ryan And Sam (15:21)
we

that on your Instagram. We're actually wondering, that was the first time I'd ever heard any statistic about the number of Ishi usu's that there were in Japan. So that information is very new to us too. Yeah, that was a cool statistic.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (15:34)
Mm.

Yeah, that statistics came from a book. So I would say that it's somewhat reliable, but it's a little bit dated. So that's why I would say that it's estimated because I'm not sure what's the number of ishi usu's now in Japan. Yeah. So I would say that saving your matcha before whisking is also like super important because without

Ryan And Sam (15:44)
Okay.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (16:01)
Seving that then they would be clumped at the bottom of the bowl. And also warming the chasen before use would really help in preventing breakage for the chasen as well. And I think one last thing is that, very, very important to me is that I truly believe that our inner scape will reflect onto the quality of the matcha that we brew and we make. So every time I make my matcha, I try to ensure that my mind is quiet.

My mind isn't racing and I'm mindful of every movement and the surroundings as well. Once I am calm, I think that my bowl of matcha becomes better and more enjoyable.

Ryan And Sam (16:38)
great. Yeah, I do a similar thing in my own tea practice too. It's a great excuse to really take the time to indulge in a moment of presence. Very therapeutical.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (16:51)
Yeah, so that's why like for my tagline for Matsu Matcha, I've decided on this tagline, which isn't really released yet, but it's going to be called like take a moment for yourself. And I think that's really important like for every day.

Ryan And Sam (17:04)
sure. Yeah, love it. And the technique of koicha then to usicha is very interesting. I've never heard of anyone doing that in their personal practice. But I can totally see that. I have seen it in, this is about 10 years ago, I was attending Urasanke Robiraki Festival ceremony session, and they made a really, really high end bowl of koicha. And I remember

the event organizers saying, we're actually going to take the leftover bits of this bowl and make an ushachab because it was such a special matcha and they didn't want to waste it. But it never occurred to me to do that in my own practice because you really get a lot more sensory information. You can experience the tea plain and very concentrated and then, you know, with foam and in a more light way. I need to include that part of my practice. It's a good sensory trajectory. Yeah.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (18:03)
Yeah, like for me, I tend to extract as much umami flavors as I can from the matcha. So I kind of feel that taking a good sniff of the matcha powder, even eating the powder raw, making it into koicha and then usucha is like the full suite of the matcha umami flavor profile.

Ryan And Sam (18:24)
Yeah, you

really get to know the tea in a way that you couldn't otherwise. Yeah, it's really cool.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (18:29)
Yeah. So,

so I kind of like do that. Like, I mean, maybe I'm just greedy.

Ryan And Sam (18:34)
cool. So, Bryan so as you are going to start your new journey Matsu matcha, like your sourcing philosophy? Like where do you your tea from and what would you consider to be a part of your portfolio?

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (18:49)
Yeah, so Matsu Matcha is positioned to be a premium brand in Singapore that serves only premium level matcha powder compared to what is currently available in the Singapore market right now. So it is created to fill that gap, that market gap. I mean, before competitors catch up, which I'm sure they can easily catch up because they have the distribution network and they have the retail stores, I would just need to make sure that

my brand is being known locally. So I'm trying my best to do that right now by building my own matcha community. And I think what's helping me is that because of the fact that I was from the community in the first place locally, so that can allow me to to penetrate the local market a little bit more easier. One of the mission that I have for the brand is really to elevate the Singapore matcha scene.

Ryan And Sam (19:28)
in the

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (19:39)
with way higher quality mature. Like right now, I do feel that the margins that competitors are taking is really a lot based on my best guess on their cost price. I mean, the fact that I do not have a retail store or tea house maybe just yet, I am able to kind of like eat into my own supposed margins and hopefully run the business in a sustainable manner while providing

really high quality matcha for the Singapore market. So, I mean, just in comparison to our neighbor, like in Thailand, right? Thailand has such high quality matcha everywhere, you know, and the culture there is like, it's either coffee or matcha. Like they would ask, would you want coffee or would you want matcha? And it's come to that, that

that adoption. So I kind of feel that it would be good that we can have something like this in Singapore as well and at the same time serve matcha that is healthy at the same time that is delicious. yeah, I just hope that Matsu matcha can work and I will be able to make it sustainable and introduce matcha like really high quality matcha to Singapore fans and

a kind of acceptable price point because premium is definitely expensive, right? I kind of hope to lower that to make it acceptable for the market. So that is, in a way, the mission for the brand. And the philosophy, of course, will be to introduce high quality matcha. currently, we have three matcha products right now called Matsu, Take and Ume. So pine trees and bamboo and plum.

Ryan And Sam (20:52)
No.

Yeah.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (21:15)
And basically, they are all 100 % handpicked only. And they're all stone milled at 40 grams per hour. And for Matsu and Take, they are competition grade level infused, which means that they're not fully competition grade because they will be definitely too expensive for the market to adopt at this current stage right now of the current market maturity. So it's infused in. And both Take

Ryan And Sam (21:20)
wow.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (21:43)
and Matsu only uses Asahi and Samidori cultivars. So I try to introduce a much higher quality and rare matcha, if you say so, to the market. Yeah.

Ryan And Sam (21:54)
cool. Very cool. Bryan you mentioned about you as the owner of this digital marketing company. do you think about targeting and positioning Matsu matcha in terms of your years of experience already in the digital marketing work?

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (22:14)
So, Matsu Matcha is a pretty niche, I would say a pretty niche kind of company in the industry, I would say, because number one, it only serves matcha powder, and number two, currently it is only an e -commerce store, and number three, it only serves the premium segment of matcha drinkers in Singapore. So I kind of think that being niche and being very deep in the segment makes it easier to penetrate the market.

Ryan And Sam (22:24)
Mm.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (22:39)
than a generic matcha brand. Because to be honest, there are multiple matcha brands right now in Singapore that are kind of generic and serving multiple other kinds of teas as well. But when they don't double down in a particular niche, it makes it harder to be memorable to consumers. They would think of you as probably kind of like a... Yeah, you offer a lot of things and stuff, but it becomes very forgettable as well.

So that was like the number one principle that I have when I wanted to create a brand to make it memorable and also to create like a strong branding around Matsu matcha. And as I mentioned, like my specialty and advantage is that I started off as a member of the matcha fan community. So I'm already like connected with a number of matcha fans locally because I used to share a lot of matcha information, like maybe

Ryan And Sam (23:05)
Hmm.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (23:31)
which are my top matcha brands and things like that. And then the next advantage is that for an e -commerce store, digital marketing efforts like email marketing and digital advertising is really, really important. So having worked with dozens of B2C e -commerce brands that maybe generates maybe seven figures a year and things like that, I have found a somewhat winning formula for maximizing the ROAS, means

For the non -industry practitioners, just means revenue on advertising spend, which is for every dollar of advertising spend, how many dollars does it create for you? So I have created before 10X, maybe even on normal month, seven to eight X, which means that my clients give me a dollar and I create $8 of revenue for them. So definitely there are profitability over there. And my recommendation for them would be to spend as much as you can because it's pure profits.

So although I have achieved such results for some of my clients, however, I'm still a little bit scared when it comes to my own brand because it's just a different ballgame altogether. So it doesn't mean that I will be able to perform for my own brand. So I guess I have to wish myself best of luck for that.

Ryan And Sam (24:41)
wish you the best of luck too.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (24:43)
Yeah, it's like the algorithm for meta and for Google is like a black box and you have to season the pixel and train the machine and make the machine learn in order to get like good performance. But once you're on track, then you're pretty on track. Yeah. So I would also think that the key to running a successful digital advertising campaign is to think in terms of like first principles and to have like a thoughtful

customer funnel strategy. I normally start off with clients, for example, which are the available first party data that they have. And then I start to work from there. And then I would create campaigns that would help to build more data points. And then we will branch out the campaigns. And then we will experiment. And then we will weed out. We will of like kill off all the...

Ryan And Sam (25:09)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (25:31)
lower performing campaigns, and then we will double down on the high performing ones. And that's kind of how we get like a diverse group of campaigns that can help to hedge against like any ups and downs in the machine learning, kind of generate a stable ROAS it's similar to investment portfolio strategy, guess. Yeah. Yeah. So, so that's a very technical part.

Ryan And Sam (25:49)
Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, that's interesting.

Do you tend to funnel all of your traffic onto, would assume that maybe in the future you will have a for your online shop or to a major platform media like the Instagram page. What would you recommend or what's your thinking about this? Funneling traffic?

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (26:04)
Yes.

Yeah, so.

So let's just assume that number one, you are going to target on the website and also on Instagram, right? I think firstly, we have to, I mean, I'll explain this concept about what is rented data. So this is interesting because when it comes to a meta targeting settings, we are only able to target people who have done a particular action or call to action in the past 180 days.

Ryan And Sam (26:23)
Mm

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (26:43)
So say for example, we were to run a campaign that brings in followers for your Instagram page. Or say we were to run a campaign that retargets people who are engaged with your IG page before, or who have DM you before. And it's also one of the reasons why you will see people running campaigns that say, please DM me for more information. That's because they're trying to capture that data for retargeting later on. However, this data will only be present in

Ryan And Sam (26:44)
No.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (27:10)
your system for 180 days. So after that, say for example, you're to turn off your campaign for 180 days, then you cannot lose that data, right? So that is something that we have to be aware when we are running campaigns and especially when we turn off and on campaigns. So of course, the best way to run a campaign will be to spread out your budget and then to run evergreen and don't ever stop them. I mean, it works in Metaspeed,

Ryan And Sam (27:18)
Hmm.

⁓

interesting.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (27:32)
Yeah, I mean, it naturally works in meta space interest that it can get the most advertising spend from advertisers. So the actual best way to actually do a digital advertising campaign will be to collect the email addresses, of course, with the right PDPA policies and regulations in place. Once you have the email addresses, then you can retarget them through email marketing. And because it's email marketing.

There are literally no regulations for that. So can write however you want. You don't have to care about like meta regulations when you run your ad copies or things like that. I mean, for our industry, there is nothing really to be concerned about because it's just like B2C and it's consumer products. But for other industries, like getting the email addresses are very, important. And I would say these are permanent assets to your company that can help in machine learning. So

In Meta, there is a setting that we can actually upload customers' email addresses. Of course, only when they opt in into marketing comms, I'll be able to do that. And so when you do that, it helps Meta to recognize this group of audiences and create local audiences of those. And so then you can reach out to people who are like them and to acquire them as a customer. So that is what I would say are more permanent data as compared to a rented

data as you would. So back to your question. Yeah, sorry. This this.

Ryan And Sam (28:46)
Hmm.

Fascinating. Very interesting. Thank you for that like master class that was, this is a new world to us. impressive.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (28:58)
So this podcast has become like a digital advertising kind of podcast. But yeah, back to the question about.

Ryan And Sam (29:03)
Well, we like to explore

all aspects of matcha And sure our listeners will find it quite useful.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (29:06)
Thank

Yeah, it's definitely important to understand where we are spending our money on when we try to acquire customers. And since there are so many practitioners listening to this podcast right now. So back to the question of is it better to run a campaign to direct to your Instagram page or your website? I would say that it is most important to run to your website. Because there are multiple things that you can do when you run them to your website as compared to your Instagram.

Ryan And Sam (29:30)
Mmm.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (29:38)
So I'm going to list a few examples. And one of it is actually because when you run campaigns to your Instagram page, it basically just get them to be aware of your page. But it does not necessarily convert them into a consumer immediately. And I think for a consumer product, it is mainly induced demand with a rather short sales cycle. So we can actually induce that demand and convert them.

directly to customers in quite a short period of time as compared to like a B2B SaaS kind of solution, long sales cycle kind of stuff. So with website targeting, we are able to tell the pixel on meta to optimize towards landing page views, which means to scroll your page and to view the content and wait for the page to finish loading and kind of like to view your content. So we're able to optimize towards that.

We are also able to optimize towards direct purchases on your platform, kind of like Shopify. And we are also able to retarget people who are at the top X percentile who have spent the most time on your website and to retarget them to come back to buy and exclude people who have not bought before. So then you would be creating a funnel retargeting people who have been to your site, but then they did not purchase from you.

Ryan And Sam (30:43)
Alright.

See you.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (30:54)
You would also realize that when you do shopping on websites and you added to cart, but you did not buy the item then maybe one week later you realize that You have an email Coming in that says that we missed you. Here's like a 5 % off you left So that is part of a add to cart drop -off retargeting strategy and By by running traffic to your website, you're able to do that

Ryan And Sam (31:21)
fascinating. Well, can you use this type of insights to kind of find out what people like like from a matcha products perspective like say you have like a 20 or a hundred sku's of matcha I don't think we'll ever have that many When we launch but you can probably use it for some like portfolio rationalization to decide what they keep or not. Okay

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (31:44)
Yes, that definitely.

So, since we are already so far off deep into the digital advertising topic, I will touch on one more stuff, which is cross -selling. So actually you're able to retarget people who have purchased particular sale products from you and retarget them to buy another sale product. So say for example, people who have bought the Sanko ceremonial bowl, but you exclude people

like you can exclude people who maybe did not visit a web page or people who did not buy your other products and then you show them an ad through maximize reach settings to maximize the reach for them so you pay less per click because it's for reach and it's for awareness but since they already know your brand then just a reach would do to let them know you can serve them an ad that sells your other products that are not the Sanko bowl

Ryan And Sam (32:34)
interesting. Okay.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (32:35)
And that's like cross -selling. The other way you can do is

to segment your customer data point as well. Say, for example, you have maybe a list of 1 ,000 customers. And then you probably want to segment the top spenders from there. And you want to use the data point to get local audiences to find more top spenders.

Ryan And Sam (32:53)
Hmm.

Okay. Fascinating. Very cool. There's no way Matsu Matcha won't be successful. think when you combine these two worlds, Very, very... You're on a great trajectory.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (33:06)
You

Thank you.

No, I really hope so. kind of like get myself,

but that's also like one reason why I wanted to start Matsu matcha because of the knowledge that I have in digital advertising and also in like the matcha as a product. I kind of feel that it would be a very wasted opportunity should I not pursue this and try it for myself because should I succeed in this, then it's the best testimony that I can get because it's a proven thing, right? But should I fail, it will be, it will be very, very safe.

Ryan And Sam (33:42)
haha

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (33:44)
So it works both ways.

Ryan And Sam (33:47)
case scenario, have a new data point and a giant pile of high quality matcha for you to consume. Where do you draw inspiration from as a founder? Both on digital advertising side and that strategy, well as on the matcha brand and the whole philosophical underpinnings behind why people like matcha.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (33:54)
Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true.

Ryan And Sam (34:15)
lifestyle. Lifestyle, like where do you draw inspiration from?

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (34:18)
Ehem.

Yeah, like inspiration wise, I think that I mean, from the start, I enjoy the process of creation and much more so when it's a new brand and it's something that I love, which is matcha. And I would say that the inspiration is actually drawn from many different areas, like the past businesses that I've ran before, the past entrepreneurial stuff that I've done.

And also the many entrepreneurs that I've met along the way, be it my clients or just friends who are running businesses. So I can't really pin it to any particular source of inspiration. Rather, I normally would tend to think in first principles and to see what would work best based on the cards that I have on hand right now. And I would say that based on my experience in method B,

which is my digital advertising agency, it's really important to be scrappy and kind of like don't be perfect because otherwise it probably wouldn't launch and I mean moving fast is better than moving perfectly and I kind of just take general lessons from entrepreneurship. But of course it's my first foray in B2C business. So...

Ryan And Sam (35:07)
Hmm.

You

Mm.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (35:25)
I would say profitability calculations are very important and we have to have some contingency plan in place. And also like having a plan for market penetration is super important and as well as knowing the product firsthand. So I do know that there are some business owners out there who sell products, but they do not know the product very well and they already start to sell them.

And I think it might not be... I mean, personally, I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing that I don't understand my product and I try to sell it to consumers. for me, whatever I do, and I've heard from another good friend of mine who is like an eight figure entrepreneur as well, he told me that whatever decisions that he make in business, he wants...

Ryan And Sam (35:50)
Mm

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (36:14)
to make sure that he's able to sleep soundly at night. And that resonates a lot with me as well, that no matter what decision I do, I just have to be able to approve it with full conscience. And then, course, being a fan of the product and being a super user of the product helps a lot. And also, of course, to kind of just enjoy the process and kind of limit the startup capital. I think you kind of know what I mean, because R &D is a lot of money.

Ryan And Sam (36:31)
and

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (36:40)
Yeah. And then only when we see some sense of profitability do we try to scale from there. Yeah.

Ryan And Sam (36:40)
Yeah. Yes, is. Yes, it is.

you planning to just stay within Singapore? Are you going to expand to the rest of Southeast Asia or even further? Or it just going to focus on Singapore for now?

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (36:58)
At the very start, I would say just in Singapore for now, but because I do have some fans from the page that are from overseas as well who mentioned that they would like to try my matcha. Thank you so much. I do intend to maybe ship in a region too. But again, it is really, it is secondary right now. I think I want to better serve the Singapore market and to see whether

Am I able to maximize the demand here? And when I have the capacity to do so, which I hope I will, or maybe not, because then it would be a good problem to expand towards the region.

Ryan And Sam (37:34)
you can add us to the list of people who are interested in your matcha outside of Singapore. amazing in the pictures and especially the packaging. I really like the stories that you do with the whole process of coming up with the packaging and the aesthetics and the printing. I don't know. It's some nice behind the scenes that you don't usually get from brands. It makes consumer feel very relatable and very close to

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (37:38)
Yeah,

Ryan And Sam (37:58)
the brand. and really every detail like you can really feel the intention in the brand the way that that was communicated. It's like if that like little thing is so well considered then you think everything else must be so well considered too. Yeah, intentionality.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (37:59)
Yeah.

Yeah, that was like the whole point of it. And I think you summarize it very, very well. So thank you so much because I really spent a lot of time trying to document and share the process. And I kind of feel that because I'm a solo founder in this. So I kind of feel quite lonely as well. So I try to connect with the community and ask them like, what do you think about this? And some of them actually edited my designs. They sent it back to me and some of them actually gave very good feedback.

Ryan And Sam (38:32)
Okay.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (38:43)
Like one of it was that can we make the labels more easily readable, like more legible? Can we make the Matsu emblem, is a pine tree emblem, make it more prominent, like at the top of the can? Yeah. So there is a lot of intention to the whole design down to the logo itself.

Maybe since we're at a logo, maybe I'll just take this opportunity to share that the logo for Matsu Matcha is kind of like a pine tree motif, but then there is a golden color stroke below. And that golden color stroke actually signifies the sun rays passing through the pine tree. And I've always been very inspired by Japanese pine trees in tea gardens. Because I think it's a really beautiful thing to be able to enjoy your bowl of matcha and to enjoy bonsai.

pine tree or like a whole planted tree in the garden. It's a real luxury.

Ryan And Sam (39:43)
you can definitely get those tea house vibes in the motifs through that abstraction. At least I definitely do. It really shines through.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (39:52)
Yeah.

Ryan And Sam (39:54)
Thank you so much for

sharing all these information. And all the extra stuff. You really opened our minds that we have a lot of research to do now.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (39:58)
you

Yeah, like the digital testing,

funnel strategy kind of stuff. That was like totally unprepared, but I'm just happy to share. Yeah.

Ryan And Sam (40:13)
We could tell it came very natural. Yeah, definitely years of experience.

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (40:15)
Yeah, because

by nature I'm just like a consultant and yeah, I just share the stuff.

Ryan And Sam (40:24)
so much, Bryan. I think that's all we have time for today.

you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with friend or giving it five stars it really helps boost our visibility across the distribution platforms for podcasts Thanks for listening and we'll see you on the next one. See you in the future. Bye. Bye

Bryan (Matsu Matcha) (40:40)
Thank you so much. Bye.